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Archive of the Special Education Message Board Folder:
Legislative Actions
December 27, 1996 - November 14, 1997
FILE NAME:  legis01.txt
448 messages - 115 Pages

SUBJECT:  Re:NEED HORROR STORIES   Date:  96-12-27 16:29:25 EST
From:  Wheels2082

Will include it definitely. I came to the realization long ago that smaller
caseloads work better for therapy otherwise disabled students wouldn't get
the services they need.

Dawn
Special Education Advocate
Online teacher

SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  96-12-28 02:15:31 EST
From:  Arloateach

DoreeN738 I am quite informed and I believe IDEA needs some intensive work.
Why oh why make the public schools responsible for your child?  You are
responsible for your child!  Not the government or our taxes. YOU!!  I am
responsible for my child, and I am responsible for educating him also.  If he
isn't doing well, I hire a tutor.  If he needs OT I would pay for it.  Why do
you think the public schools owe you?  This is exactly where IDEA needs
changing, make parents responsible for their own children's needs.  If
teacher's are there to teach, let them teach, learning needs to redefined.
What is learning, it certainly isn't rolling kids over and feeding them threw
a tube in school.  That is a custodial issue and needs to be dealt with as a
custodial issue.  Let kids that truly have potential to learn benefit from
fed. and state funds.  I do know more about IDEA and I know exactly what
needs changing Parents RIGHTS!

SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  96-12-28 13:21:04 EST
From:  DebbieFr

Hello, WAKE UP

 Every parent does not have the resourses that you obviously profess to have
to afford these services that you think schools should no longer provide. As
a taxpayer with two children I have no problem with my money going to help
educate students with special needs.

SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  96-12-28 13:22:35 EST
From:  DebbieFr

You know, come to think of it if you had your way we would be back in the
dark ages when handicapped children were dumped in institutions.

SUBJECT:
Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  96-12-28 13:45:39 EST
From:  SusanS29

"Why oh why make the public schools responsible for your child?"

You're saying then, that public school is only for those who have no special
needs?

That, friend, is in violation of the Constitution of the United States.

I think such ideas make a VERY POTENT argument of just how badly IDEA is
needed -- to protect special needs children from the attitude that they are
"second class" and undeserving when it comes to our public education system.

"Let kids that truly have potential to learn benefit from fed. and state
funds."

My friend, my child received special education (including OT services) from
second to fifth grade.

She scored a 5 on an AT history test *as a junior* (do you know what that
means?) and will attend a very good university -- hasn't quite picked which
one yet.

This was *not* wasted money. But please don't assume I left it all up to the
schools.  :)

SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  96-12-28 19:02:23 EST
From:  DONORALOU

Please don't mix up learning disabled students with those with more severe
disabilities. Learning disabled students do very well in regular classrooms
with modifications. Developmentally handicapped students with severely below
average intelligence develop social skills, but they usually peak at about
the 4th grade in academics and it is only academic maintenance in school
after that. There is not much they can do to progress academically in the
average high school. Emotionally disturbed youngsters and medically fragile
youngsters do not belong in the "average" public school at all. The former
are dangerous to others and the latter are in danger from others. Schools are
set up to teach academics. If the child cannot keep up, he should be kept
out. Train him at home or in a school set up for his special needs.


SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  96-12-28 20:11:47 EST
From:  DebbieFr

This is why we have IDEA, most parents did not and do not have the resources
to teach a disabled child at home. These children do not need a  seperate
place where they are locked away and forgotten. The deserve public education
just as much as "normal" children. The ciriculum that they are being taught
once they reach the middle/high school years is much less academic and more
"real word survival" Many of the so call severely disabled children can and
do become productive members of society. I also think the "normal" child is
better off for seeing the other side and is some cases getting to help a
"special" child. They become much more caring individuals.

SUBJECT:
Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  96-12-28 23:54:32 EST
From:  SusanS29

"Emotionally disturbed youngsters and medically fragile youngsters do not
belong in the "average" public school at all."

I've helped keep many "emotionally disturbed" kids in regular classrooms, and
they were never a danger to others. There is no one classification of
students who should *always* be in special classes.

SUBJECT:  Re: Arloateach    Date:  96-12-29 01:18:34 EST
From:  Wheels2082

Let me give you a quick national government lesson about two different laws
in regards to Education in general.
First, there is the CIVIL RIGHTS LAW. A Civil Rights law is a law that
schools and districts must follow but don't receive funding. In simplist
terms, if a state opens a public school, it can't discriminate against a
person due to race, gender, religion, ethnicity, or disability. Section 504
of the Rehabilitative Act is this type of law.
The other type of law is the PROGRAM LAW. Under this law, the district
receives extra money to provide services to identified disabled students.
Public Law 94-142 falls under this classification.

Dawn
Special Education Advocate
Online teacher


SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  96-12-29 15:07:56 EST
From:  Arloateach

DONORALOU  You have put it well.  I am not advocating that children with
special needs, moderate special needs do not belong in school.  I strongly
advocate and am a true believer that moderate special needs children strongly
benefit from public school special education classes.  I am a LH classroom
teacher that has put many many 5 year olds back into the mainstream of
kindergarten and they have been successful, most of them never going back to
resource or a SCD class.  I know the system can work for those it is
appropriate to help. You have said it well. Parents need to take on more of
the burden of their own children.  It is not the jobs of public schools to
provide intensive services.  Someone mentioned how expensive it is to provide
those servies and I must be well off to believe I can provide servies for my
own children.  This is exactly my point, it is expensive, why make the school
system accountable for paying for these services?  I really don't see the
connection.

SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  96-12-29 15:10:43 EST
From:  Arloateach

No one is saying lock them up in institutions.  Educate parents and give them
consulting support to meet the needs of their child.  Or at school,  one
could call it what it is, babysitting, give the parent a break, hire minimum
wage people to babysit, and let teachers teach!

SUBJECT:  Re:Reply to Wheels2082   Date:  96-12-29 15:22:30 EST
From:  Arloateach

Where is all that fed. and state funding when it comes to providing all those
services for demanding parents over and above their fair share of the general
district funds.  What about all the aides provided one to one for full
inclusion funding?  They are again taken out of general funds.  The govt.
does not reinburse school districts for all the necessary funding of demanded
services of parents for their disabled child.  It doesn't even reinburse up
to 30% of spent money.
Is that fair and equitable?  Sure the law states.....it also states free and
appropriate not the very best money can buy or provide.  Like I say I want my
child to have a one to one tutor also, why not provide him one?  Let's give
all kids one to one tutors.  Free and appropriate,  what a district has to
offer and that alone  is free and appropriate.  Demands of parents is above
and beyond, hence my belief IDEA and 504 need some vital revamping to five
services to ALL children, not just special needs.

SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with
IDEA   Date:  96-12-29 17:25:46 EST
From:  DebbieFr

Arloateach,

  You say make the parents more responsible for the education of their child.
What do you do with the children who have parents who can not ( for what ever
reason ) do more than provide basic food, shelter, love?? This is why
services are offered in a public setting, to equalize between the have and
have nots. I agree that some people have gone overboard in their demand for
services, but I have not walked a mile in theie shoes and I can't begrude
others services because of a few that have overdone.

SUBJECT:  Re:Reply to
Wheels2082   Date:  96-12-29 19:46:39 EST
From:  Wheels2082

From your earlier responses, you were attacking Special Education. Had to
show you the root in law. If Federal law got rid of Special Education
tomorrow, EMH, TMH, and Autism wouldn't be able to support themselves through
jobs that they were trained for, and instead you would be paying for them
through Social Security disability for the rest of their lives.
Being disabled and working around disabled people, we've got more costs than
you do for independence. For the three disabilities mentioned above, training
takes longer than it would for you and me. For ES, there are psychologists
for treatment but HMOs limit the amount that a person could see them, and
once you reach the limit you pay for them; try pricing the cost of one when
you've got a free moment.

Dawn
Special Education Advocate
Online teacher

SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  96-12-29 20:00:56 EST
From:  Wheels2082

<<I am a LH classroom teacher that has put many many 5 year olds back into
the mainstream of kindergarten and they have been successful, most of them
never going back to resource or a SCD class.>>

Let me tell you some of the facts you might overlook in regards to your
general statements Arloateach, and you won't like what I'm going to point
out. In addition, my experience with the category you teach is 20+ years, and
I've seen things that would make your hair stand on ends if I ever told you
about them. I won't because it wouldn't be fare to the others.
But from my experience, not all disabled students are mainstream material
especially those who are in high school and haven't been mainstreamed. The
best time for successful mainstreaming comes in the early grades like the age
level you teach.
If you think its a bed of roses for parents of disabled students to get
services for disabled students, I'll introduce you to a few parents who are
having a hard time getting an education for their children even in your
category.
THERE'S AN OPEN INVITATION FOR YOU TO JOIN MY ONLINE CLASS FOR PARENTS FOR
THE NEXT CLASS SESSION. E-MAIL ME IF INTERESTED AND THEN DIRECTIONS WILL BE
SENT BACK TO YOU.

Dawn
Special Education Advocate
Online Teacher

SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  96-12-29 20:04:18 EST
From:  Wheels2082

<<Or at school,  one could call it what it is, babysitting, give the parent a
break, hire minimum wage people to babysit, and let teachers teach!>>

Have you ever taught TMH, SMH, PMH, or Autistic students? They can learn but
not as quick as you. For one thing, the teacher in a self-contained classroom
with these students isn't a babysitter as you just mentioned. Why don't you
spend some time in one before making this judgment.

SUBJECT:  board of regents
proposal   Date:  96-12-29 20:57:02 EST
From:  DOCK169

can somebody update me on the legislative vote which should have been held
between 12/18 & 12/20 on the propsal by the board of regents on special
educations funding?

SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  96-12-29 21:14:50 EST
From:  PORKEY1050

arloateach;  your thoughts are good but there are so many parents that are
not capable to deal with their children, much less the ed. system

SUBJECT:
Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  96-12-30 15:05:02 EST
From:  DVC Mom

Let's have a reality check........Is this country not already trillions of
dollars in debt?   We absolutely cannot afford to give everything to
everybody.   This is why our country is in such a devastating decline.  The
issue has more to do with fiscal responsibiltiy.  As a teacher and taxpayer,
I see thousands of dollars being spent on children who cannot possibly
benefit from the services due to severe retardation. I've encounter parents
insisting on an aid or teacher for 1:1 instruction or increasing speech/OT/PE
services when the therapists involved know the parents requests/demands are
totally unrealistic!!  Let's spend the extra money on Learning Disabled
children and regular ed children where we know beyond certainly that they can
benefit from the services and acheive their maximum potential.

SUBJECT:
Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  96-12-30 15:17:27 EST
From:  DVC Mom

And another thing......before someone posts and tells me how uncaring and
insensitive I am, I think I should add that I spend an average of $150 a
month on buying needed therapy materials and supplies.  I've also paid for
medical examinations for children who were in need.  I  have a caseload of 75
kids and have devoted my life to my profession .  I've seen it all and
experienced much the past 20 years and I am discontent with IDEA.  Some
definite changes need to be made!!!

SUBJECT:  Re:Reposted: Changing IDEA   Date:  96-12-30 19:06:30 EST
From:  Ms Puggley

Whoa!!!  There are several publications on school law news that are trying to
keep all educators up on whats happening with IDEA.

SUBJECT:  Re:NEED HORROR
STORIES   Date:  96-12-30 20:12:07 EST
From:  DVC Mom

I'm an SLP working in the public schools who has also had some similiar
experiences.  I have seen where the rights of one special ed child has taken
over and destroyed the civil rights of the other 22 children in the classroom
and their right to a free and appropriate education.  I don't feel any more
money should be spent by the local school system on a special ed child vs. a
regular ed.
Things have gone way off course and I don't think this was the original
intent of the law which so many of us old-timers so diligently worked
for.

SUBJECT:  I am stunned!   Date:  96-12-30 21:21:29 EST
From:  ALauritzen

I have read all the messages about Discontent with IDEA.  I cannot believe
what I am reading.  You all say you know the law. The law is Great.  The law
is the mandate of the Constitutional right of children with disabilities to
receive a free, appropriate public education like their peers that are not
disabled.  The fact that the federal government has never held up their end
of the deal is a part of the problem. When 94-142 was passed it was to have
funding stream of 40% of the costs to the states over and above the per
pupil cost.  They have only paid approximately 8%.

I offer my shoes any day to any one that would like to help with my son.
Unfortunately that would not be in the public education setting any longer,
he graduated from High School last year at the age of 21 and is now working
part time doing data entry for an international corporation that is in our
community.

He has been in both public and private pre school programs, he was in a
contained classroom for the 'Orthopedic students" which was a nightmare.  He
has had speech therapy, both school and at the local university, he has had
PT, public and my checkbook, OT at school. He has had one on one teachers, he
has been mainstreamed, integrated and included all of his school years.  He
had job training during the last 2 years of school, working at the athletic
department at the university, the department of Revenue, one of the local
hospitals, and at his high school.

My son, has Spina Bifida, moderate mental disabilities, visually impaired,
hearing impaired, very physically impaired, hydrocephalus (shunted), bowel
and bladder incontinence( managed by bowel program and catheterizing
program), uses a wheelchairs for his getting around (not a power chair)

For his 21 years of life so far he has cost us and the insurance company
almost half to 3-quarters of a million dollars.  His father is self employed
and so am I. We have an older son that has graduated from college and working
on his masters degree.

We are far from rich and can afford very little.  He receives some SSI, but
it varies as do his paychecks from work.  But that money goes for his health
insurance ( that has a capitation rate), his medications each month,
($75.00), incontinence supplies ($150.00), then their is the 20% that
insurance doesn't cover.  We have owed hospitals up to 20,000 after insurance
for his care.

We are his primary care givers. We are his family.  It makes me very upset
and very angry to read that some of you don't think parents do enough for
their children, especially those that are more severely involved. When they
are at home we don't shut them in their rooms or put them in a closet. They
have jobs and things to do around the house. There is alot of learning that
does go on at home.   Whoever said that learning was text book only. Learning
for some children can be the learning of the state capitals of all the
states, learning for others would just to know the state capital for your
state.

It makes me very sad to think that some of you are teaching our children.
With your attitudes towards special education I wonder about the quality.

The organization that I consult for is the National Parent Network on
Disabilities and they would love to hear your comments on IDEA. They are the
advocates for parents of children with disabilities. They are the voice of
parents and they have a seat front row center at the Congressional conference
tables on IDEA.  I know they would like to hear from you. [e-mail] or
homepage http://www.npnd.org

I know you say you know the IDEA law. I would suggest you go read it again
and learn the history behind it. It was parents who banned together to have a
better life for their children with disabilities instead of them wasting away
at home or in institutions.

From what I can pull from your comments, you would believe that my son would
have been better off at home and not wasting your money.

Shame on you!

SUBJECT:  Re:I am stunned!   Date:  96-12-30 22:07:09 EST
From:  DVC Mom

I just turned back to this folder and I  do realize that you are stunned by
what you are reading.  It was depresiing for me to have to post what I did.
However, I think there are apparently different situations across the
country.  The problems I see with IDEA are based only on what I have observed
and experienced in the particular area of the country where I live.  I do
know that in my school system that  the financial end of the situation is of
grave concern.  We have a very good small local school system but the demands
of special ed parents over the years have destroyed morale and the
relationships between parents and teachers as well as putting a financial
drain on the system.  The quality of the regular ed program is down because
local money is being utilized to hire aids for individual special ed
children..  Teachers feel overwhelmed  by the demands since many are so
unattainable.  All I can say is the situation is increasingly becoming worse
and some changes in the law need to be made.  I'm sorry. I've tried my best
over the past 20 years and I have finally realized that much is beyond my
grasp to give.

SUBJECT:  Re:I am stunned!   Date:  96-12-31 02:43:11 EST
From:  Smiles9994

I have  read these messages and I also cannot believe what I am reading! You
are so right with your statements ALauritzen, the federal govt is not holding
up their end of deal! I am not only sad that teachers can write messages such
as these it makes me very angry.

I would also offer the coat off my back to anyone that would help my son
also! I live in a school district where special education and assistance to
special needs children is in the dark ages. The district violates state and
federal laws on a daily basis by discriminating against my son and every
other special needs child in the county.

All I can say is I am glad you don't teach my son! And in fact the special
education is so bad here I wouldn't be surprised if you were  in my county.

I and other parents have to advocate on a daily basis to get even the most
basic services like an evaluation or a bus ride for a child in a wheelchair.
My son probably brings in "more" money to the district than almost every
other special needs child in the district. Why? Because the disability he has
is visual impairment which is the highest weighted disability! But, I cannot
even get books on tape or large print books for him! He is a very bright and
curious little boy who has dreams for the future just like EVERY other child
out there. But, he is not getting the appropriate special education or
services he needs to reach his dreams. Instead, the money continues to roll
in and he continues to fall furthur and furthur behind his peers.  The sad
part is there are so many innovative ideas that could be used with my son
that cost nothing that are not being done.

Don't tell me parents don't do enough for their children! I quit my good l
paying job to help him and to advocate for him and all the other special
needs children in our area because of people like you. The parents in my area
that are not that involved are not for one reason.Its because the people that
are supposed to have our childrens best interest at heart  never informed the
parents of their rights. Their children are not even receiving the basics
because they "didn't know" there could be anything else.

I agree with the statement  -" It makes me very sad to think some of you are
teaching our children. With your attitudes towards special education"  I know
now why there is poor quality. I also suggest you brush up on your reading of
IDEA and 504. My son can have a productive satisfying life if he could get
what he needs. He is also severely learning disabled. Its also apparent to me
that you do not have a special needs child. Only parents, teachers, and
individuals who have truely walked in our shoes and who have true caring
compassion for special needs children would have  never made  a statement
such as this. Don't tell me I don't do enough. I spend hours every day
teaching my son what the school doesn't. And more hours  helping all the
parents in this county who have special needs children  understand that their
child is entitled to an appropriate education - one they are not getting.
Have you thought of changing your career or retiring early?
         Shame Shame on you!

SUBJECT:  Re:I am stunned!   Date:  96-12-31 08:14:07 EST
From:  H411967532

I have indeed walked in your shoes which goes to show how quick many  are to
judge.  I have raised a child with learning disabilities.  I feel that many
parents are quick to judge educators because they have not yet reached the
acceptance phase of their child's disability.  Having a disabled child is
very much like having to cope with a terminable illness or death in the
family.  One goes through shock, denial, anger, bitterness, and finally
acceptance.  It took me 17 years to get  tothe acceptance phase.  I feel many
of the parents on this board are apparently in the angry and bitter phases
and thus cannot see the whole picture of life yet.   I finally matured and
realized my demands were actually selfish and that I was ignoring the needs
of my other own children. Every child has different learning styles and
learns at different rates.  It is not fair to demand 1:1 services only for
special ed children.  We must consider the rights of all children and what is
fair and equitable for all.  Life is not fair.   We all have our burdens that
we must bear.   I have also dealt with two terminal illnesses in my family
and wish there was more money for cancer research.  Having a special needs
child is not easy but so are many other things in life that you will
undoubtably experience.

SUBJECT:  Re:I am stunned!   Date:  96-12-31 11:28:01 EST
From:  ALauritzen

To those that have responded to my message. I am not a teacher, I am a parent
and a parent advocate. I did not fall of the turnip truck yesterday. I have
had 18 years of my son's 21 years of being trained what it is to be a parent
of a child with disabilities. I sat on the pity pot for about 5 minutes then
decided to make the best of the gift that I have been given.  I learned and
learned about disabilities, spina bifida, mental retardation, how the system
works or doesn't work for children with disabilities and their families. I
have many nationally recognized mentors around the country that have helped
me get the best for my son, only with in my rights as a parent and within the
law. When a school districts violates the federal law, they have to be taken
to task.  I have never been to due process, close but no cigar, but it scares
me when I know the IDEA law better that the administrations of the special
education services in my school district.  When I went after something for my
son, I went after it with the intention that it would impact all the students
and make things better for all of them.

Yes, my son got one on one at times, so do gifted kids get mentors.

How about some contructive suggestions of how you think the law needs to be
changed.

Also to other parents out there in this world of cyberspace, if your school
district has violated the federal law - what have you done about it?  Let it
pass or report it. To parents get together and talk to the state department
officials, do you talk to your Congressional Representatives, do you talk to
your state legislators?  This is how things get changed.  We can moan and
complain on this forum, but this conversation needs to be directed to the
right people.

Your comments have been collected by me and I plan to share them with others.
Did you know that the federal government actually put more money into the
special education budget this past session?

SUBJECT:  Not quit Friday news-Dec 24   Date:  96-12-31 11:33:24 EST
From:  ALauritzen

From: National Parent Network on Disabilities

We will not be putting a bulletin out this Friday, but wanted to get a few
notes out before we leave for the week.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
from EDUCATION DAILY, November 22, 1996

New FERPA Rules Grant Greater Access To Records:

"School and college administrators will be freer to share student records
undrer rules the Eduacation Departmetn issued yesterday.
"The changes to the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA), which
take effect Dec. 23, permit schools to exchange information regarding
disciplinary action for behavior threatening the safety of other students or
teachers.

While schools have always been allowed to transfer infromation when a student
changes schools, the new rule expands the roster of situations for wich
records can be exchanged."

If you are interested in acquiring a copy of the Final Regulations, please
let us know.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From Justice for All

On January 8 at 10 am, Disability Community Advocates will gather at the
steps of the Supreme Court Building in DC to protest the Assertion that our
lives are not worth living, that society should be authorized to help us die.
Justice for All will be there. We hope many of you and your colleagues will
be there with us.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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SUBJECT:  Re:NEED HORROR STORIES   Date:  96-12-31 11:42:00 EST
From:  Wheels2082

Thank you for your story. I really appreciate it.

Dawn
Special Education Advocate
Online teacher

SUBJECT:  work together   Date:  96-12-31 11:54:13 EST
From:  DebbieFr

I think that it is time to stop name calling and work together to make IDEA
become better for all of those in need. We must stop fighting over minute
details and work together as parents and teachers to advoacte what is best
for "OUR CHILDREN" We must realize that situations vary across the country;
teachers have a right to be frustrated ( and yes speak truthfully sometimes
even though it may sound callous) and parents have a right to be frustrated
and speak openly. BUT, we have o learn to walk in each others shoes and
realize that there is potential in every child
 and they deserve of best to reach that potential.

Please, no more parent, teacher bashing, just workable suggestions to the
problem!

SUBJECT:  Re:Reposted: Changing IDEA   Date:  96-12-31 12:28:07 EST
From:  RhoLaren

Ms. Puggley,

Could you please post on this board the names of the publications on school
law that deal with IDEA? I would be interested, and I am sure many of the
others would be, too.

SUBJECT:  Re:work together   Date:  96-12-31 16:19:06 EST
From:  DVC Mom

DebbieFr,

       Thanks so much for your posting!!   We really needed a "peacemaker" on
this board and I agree with you 100%.  I love working with special ed
children and want to continue in my profession. However, I posted the
comments that I did to help parents and advocates try to see things from
regular ed  parents, teachers, and school administrators point of view.  The
law in its present form is obviously not working the way it should.  If it
was we wouldn't be getting all the complaints from special ed parents,
teachers, etc.
      I'm not sure that I really know what needs to be done, but since we're
now all trying to join together on a workable solutions I'll list some of the
difficulties I've experienced that makes it hard for me to give quality
speech/language services:

     1.  Lack of money.   I only get $150 a year for materials and supplies.
The past couple of years I've spent my own money on out of town
conferences/meetings which dealt with oral motor  development in tub-fed
children (BTW, this was presented by Suzanne Evans Morris and was well worth
the $500 I spent on travel and the conference),    I've also personally
rented AlphaTalkers and DeltaTalkers from Prentke-Romich so that I could
learn along with my clients on how to utilize the devices.  I've done all
this because I wanted to do it so that I could be better at my job.  My
school district refused to pay for any of it.

2. A LARGE CASELOAD OF 75-80 STUDENTS.      I serve 4 schools in  my school
district.  The distant between 2 of the schools is 24 miles.  I also served
the most severely communicatively handicapped children in my district.  My
state has no mandated caseload size, only recommendations.   If I utilized a
weighted caseload with say a 3 for severe, 2 for moderate, and 1 for mild
then I should only be serving about 25 kids.  Everyday I have parents and
teachers tell me that they can't believe how I can possibly do what I do.  I
consider myself lucky that in 20 years I've never had a complaint filed
against me nor have I ever been through mediation or due process.  However, I
know SLP's that have.  I've been a member of my state association for all
these years and we're still fighting for a mandated maximum caseload.  My
husband feels I should be in private practice so I wouldn't feel so
frustrated, but I love children and  want to stay in the schools. I  hope you
want think I'm being boastful, but I am proud of the fact that I am
considered a very good SLP.

3.DISRUPTIVE and VIOLENT STUDENTS:  I've observed where the school system
can't expell a student who has brought a weapon to school because the parents
have claimed it was due to his disability.    I guess this is where my
occasional anger to special ed parents comes from.  Special ed children's
parents bringing lawsuit against a system and winning because of this. ANY
SUGGESTIONS ON HOW TO CHANGE THIS PART OF THE LAW?   I don't think the
original intent of  IDEA was allow this kind of thing to happen.

4. INCLUSION FOR SEVERELY COGNITIVELY IMPAIRED, PHYSICALLY DISABLED, AND
MEDICALLY FRAGILE CHILDREN WHO ARE TUBE-FED AND ARE DEVELOPMENTALLY AT A 2-3
MONTH LEVEL -  These children definitely don't need to be in the regular
classroom or perhaps not even in a public school since their medical care and
just keeping them alive are the long term goals for them.  I can't believe
that parents are insisting on inclusion for these children.

Well, I'm tired of posting and I guess many of you are tired of hearing of
what I think also.  However, I do hope that some of you professional
advocates will take note of these frustrations and concerns and post what you
feel would be a workable solution.

Hope we can all come together on this.

SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  96-12-31 19:59:36 EST
From:  Arloateach

I am so glad you are back DVCmom.

SUBJECT:  Re Ms. Puggley   Date:  96-12-31 20:01:30 EST
From:  Arloateach

Where are those publications?  Addresses etc. I would like them thanks
Arloateach!

SUBJECT:  Re:ALauritzen   Date:  96-12-31 20:30:28 EST
From:  Arloateach

I believe you have done your job well as a parent.  Fought for and received
services for you son, and helped him become a great functioning part of our
society.  Just answer me one question, why should public school be the
insitution that pays for it?  Government maybe, not public school.  I know
your life must have been very hard and it is probably heart breaking for you.
I just have strong feelings, much like yours, that money should be spent,
what little there is, on my program dealing with LH kids.  I will also fight
like a mother bear to have the needs of my children met.  (My class kids)
They mean a lot to me, and I want what is best for them also.  But, in my
district I haven't received one cent for my program in 8 years.  Not to buy a
toy, game or a book.  Where oh where has all that money gone you ask?  Full
inclusion, severe disabilities,and helping districts pay for law suits by
parents who want above and beyond their share of pubilc school  money.  I
could tell you horror stoires also.  I have taught for 20 years and kids in
my LH class are now considered SH while kids that used to be served in my
classroom are sitting once again in regular classes.  Now, how I ask is that
helping kids?  Most LH kids can't even get placed anymore due to the amount
of SH placements required.  Walk in my shoes one day as a teacher in a sped
classroom.  I would like one to one attention for all my children.  I have
one aide and 12 children, 6 ADHD, two cocaine babies, 2 autistis, and 2 very
severe language placement.  All are very needy.  I love each and every one of
them with all my heart.  But I do not believe their needs should put a strain
on the general funds of school districts.  I am also passionate about what I
believe and it does not make me an ogre.  Sorry you feel that way.  But some
people out in the mainstream think parents of special ed kids are
selfish.

SUBJECT:  OFFICIAL -- please read!   Date:  96-12-31 23:43:07 EST
From:  SusanS29

The only reason we aren't *full* of "ad hominem" attack posts which MUST be
removed is that no one individual has been singled out.

I understand the seriousness of the discussion.

DITCH the "SHAME SHAME" stuff and other personal characterizations
IMMEDIATELY, however, or realize that your post may well be removed from view
(you'll be notified if that happens, and told how to appeal the decision.)

It IS possible to discuss this without personal attacks, and that's what AOL
rules *require.*

SusanS29, Host

SUBJECT:  Re:work together   Date:  96-12-31 23:46:28 EST
From:  SusanS29

"Well, I'm tired of posting and I guess many of you are tired of hearing of
what I think also."

Not at all!

Thank you *very much* for your thought-provoking post, and thank you for
stating your views so evenly.

SusanS29, Host

SUBJECT:  Re:Arloateach   Date:  96-12-31 23:54:28 EST
From:  Wheels2082

From my own experience, the resource room can't fit my needs academically,
but socially because of my disability, it fits perfectly. What gives! From my
own school years, we were at the bottom of the heap when it came to
communication and field trips.
One instance, there was an overlap in material between a junior high school
social studies course and a high school course. Into the second marking
period, the teacher found out about the overlap by chance. I wouldn't have
known better because I attended a private school for the disabled the
majority of elementary and junior high school. But I feel sorry for the
others who had to deal with the repeated material. By the way, it was a world
history course.
The field trips were a source of contention when I realized what I missed out
in my freshman year during my sophomore year. I missed out on two field trips
that I would have loved to attend. A trip to the theatre and a day trip to
Washington D.C. The theatre is something that I came to appreciate while
attending the private school because we had several trips while I attended
it. Only English department teachers took their classes and the resource room
wasn't included. The reason was the same for the Washington, D.C. trip but
was under the Social Studies department teachers only took their classes.
Neither was fair to me.

Dawn
Special Education Advocate
Online teacher

SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  97-01-01 09:41:02 EST
From:  TeachrCard

Oh, my!  I've worked as an advocate for "severly" mentally retarded people
who deserve the same rights as any other person in the US.  They are people
first, and their disability is a secondary issue.  Every person needs to be
educated individually!  "Severly" mentally retarded students do not study
chemistry and physics.  But they do learn life skills such as what it means
when they see an orange light at a crosswalk with the letters "Don't Walk".
They learn how to set an alarm clock and how to catch a bus in order to get
to work on time.  They learn to use money as an exchange system for food and
shelter.

SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  97-01-01 11:16:18 EST
From:  DVC Mom

>Oh, my!  I've worked as an advocate for "severly" mentally retarded people
who deserve the same rights as any other person in the US.  They are people
first, and their disability is a secondary issue.  Every person needs to be
educated individually!  <


As an SLP, some of the children I work with are also severely cognitively
impaired and a couple are in a very fragile medical condition.  One has
already exceeded her "life expectancy" and is in and out of the hospital
frequently.  She is tube fed. She is cognitively around a 3 month level.
She is not ambulatory.  We all love her and coddle her.  I guess we spoil
her.  Her mother is a terrific person.  But in reality, all we are basically
doing for this child is providing "babysitting"
services.  Reality wise, we're really helping the emotional and social needs
of the mom rather than the child.  Mom needs some time to herself so that she
can feel refreshed and psychologically able to meet this childs needs when
the child returns home.

These are the type of the children I was referring to in my original post.
They are the kids that are working on learning "cause and effect" and "object
permanence" and other related skills that are prerequisite to language and
cognitive development.   THESE CHILDREN  "IMHO" are not candidates for
"INCLUSION" and  regular classroom placement could possibly be detrimental to
their health and physical well being.   BTW, this mom is very happy and
extremely grateful for her child's present placement.  No problems
here....just an example of the type of kids I was referring to.

SUBJECT:
Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  97-01-01 17:46:42 EST
From:  TLVAIL

I have an idea!!  Let's file a class action suit on the behalf of ALL
students.  If we're looking for eqaulity then all students should be tested
to see what level they're performing on.  Then ALL students should have an
IEP developed to address their individual learning styles and rates of
learning different subject matter.  Next, the parents of ALL children should
be able to visit different learning environments to see which they feel would
be most condusive to their child's learning. (Of course, if the public school
system didn't have a setting that was the least restrictive in the parent's
view, the school system should pay for tuition at private schools.)   The
school system would be responsible for documenting the progress of all
students and have yearly reviews where new IEPs could be developed.  This
way, we could insure that every child is learning to the best of his or her
own capabilities!  Of course our class sizes would have to be much smaller-
There'd be no "special Ed." because all students would be considered special.
We wouldn't have to worry about "inclusion" because each child would be in
his/her own least restrictive environment.  What do you think?  How can we
get started?

SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  97-01-01 18:04:22 EST
From:  DVC Mom

Actually, I've thought of that idea too!!  Unfortunately, we'd probably be
spending all of our time testing, meeting and doing paperwork rather than
teaching which (BTW) is almost the situation I find myself in at the current
time.  However, your view is fairly typical of many parents of regular ed
kids that I talk with.  They feel the quality of their child's education is
being compromised by the time demanded/needed by some special ed. children in
the classroom.

Laws shouldn't be passed unless they can be fully funded to provide what
they've mandated. Since it's doubtful that this will be ever be the case
given the national debt and the need to balance the budget, I quess you could
say we're in a PICKLE.  A very sour one and many don't like the taste of
it.

SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  97-01-01 18:53:18 EST
From:  MarRigby

SpedAdvoRN :

Many of your points are well-taken. Calling a new team meeting is a positive
thing to do. However, it won't be very meaningful if both sides can't respect
one another. Dealing with SED students is difficult for both the parent and
the teacher. But surely, there can be no improvement if neither gives 100%.

Many teachers are parents as well. We also have families who need love and
nurturing. I certainly can't count all the 8:30 am-6:00 pm days I've put in
at school, and then have come home to do more work until late at night. We
may not work summers, but I can guarantee that ambitious and dedicated
teachers put in as many hours over the long haul. Please don't be so bitter
toward us. We are not your enemy!

Marilyn

SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  97-01-01 20:50:07 EST
From:  RhoLaren

TLVAIL,

That is the best idea anyone has come up with. I love it. And I do wish some
parents would file class action suits on behalf of their non-IDEA, or higher
functioning IDEA students. Already, there are divisions within the community
of parents of disabled students, and I would not be too surprised if we see
the spectacle of IDEA parent vs IDEA parent in the courts sometime soon.

SUBJECT:
Tips For Parents   Date:  97-01-02 08:48:16 EST
From:  DVC Mom

I've reread ths posts on this folder and I'm dismayed by the degree of
anger/bitterness we've displayed.  Venting our frustration is perhaps good
therapy for us psychologically but is counterproductive to the child's best
interests if done at M-Team/IEP meetings.

Over the years I've observed that parents of special ed children who obtained
their personal goals/wants from the school system took the following
approach.  INITIALLY (and I do stress initially) they were friendly, warm and
gracious towards the school.  They are generally the parent volunteers, the
ones who help organize fund -raisers, active in the PTO, and advocates for
the whole school.  They first establish rapport and build a friendship with
their child's teachers and therapists.  They offer their help and may even
substitute-teach in a special ed classroom.  They come to know the needs of
all the children and the teacher.  They NEVER come into an M-Team meeting
armed with a special education advocate by their side presenting a list of
demands and saying my child is entitled to this and that because the law says
so. When a parent does this, it doesn't take long before they are frowned
upon negatively by the staff and administraton. This is not serving the best
interests of your child.  At this point I must also stress that the teacher
involved must also have mutual respect for the parents and their point of
view. The point is...  all of us have feelings and want to be treated with
respect.   If we would all follow "THE GOLDEN RULE" with mutual respect and
understanding then the child is ultimately the winner.

SUBJECT:  Re:Tips For
Parents   Date:  97-01-02 13:23:50 EST
From:  RhoLaren

DVC  Mom-

You are right. Maybe there are such problems with the implementation of IDEA
that all involved get angry and bitter after awhile, parents, school
personnel, and of course, children. Perhaps your letter sums up what is
wrong. If everyone is dissatisfied, as you have read from the post, don't you
think it is time we came up with some changes. Passive resistance to the
stupidity of how the law is implemented is sometimes the only avenue some of
us have left.  Believe it or not, many of us started out trying to implement
the law with all our hearts for the sake of the children. We have been
insulted so many times, as you indicated happens to the parents, that we run
from it. Not good, but necessary.

SUBJECT:  Re:IDEA!   Date:  97-01-02 14:09:55 EST
From:  Arloateach

I agree, sometimes I am so passionate about how I feel, I lose sight of the
main goal.  Education of Children!  All chilidren, perhaps all kids do
deserve an IEP, not a bad idea at that.  Classes will all have to be 1 to 12.
(even 1-20 is a start)  I'd go for that!   One to one aide time available as
necessary.  Teachers salaries should be in the $50+ range and we should have
all services available necessary for servcie to all children, fitness
trainers, psychologists,  vocational counselors, play therapists, music and
drama therapists, college counselors, OT therapists,  speech and language
therapists, life skill trainers, etc.etc.  Give public schools the money
needed and the personnel and we as parents should be happier.  Cost???  Give
public school systems the money they need to provide these services and
teachers, parents, and school districts would be happier.  I am not sure how
much all this would cost, but I think it is a great idea to have all services
available to all children, no disscrimination.  Like I keep saying I would
like a tutor for my son in math, the best money can offer!  Great IDEA!

SUBJECT:
Re:IDEA!   Date:  97-01-02 17:05:49 EST
From:  DVC Mom

Also, also under our new "IDEA" every child will have their own lap top
computer and all the latest assistive technology available <VBG>

SUBJECT:
Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  97-01-02 22:03:50 EST
From:  Mom424

"I guess you could say we're in a Pickle. A very sour one and many don't like
the taste of it....

I doubt there are many parents out there who "like the taste" of the life we
have to live to ensure our children get an education.  Teachers are not the
only ones who have to buy supplies. I just purchased my son and all his
classmates' reading and math books. Over the past 7 years I have learned if I
want my son to have an education, I am going to be the one to get him what he
needs. I have yet to meet one parent who has a child in reg. ed who had to
buy their child's books, the school provided them.

SUBJECT:  Re:IDEA! (DVC Mom)   Date:  97-01-03 00:45:34 EST
From:  Wheels2082

I'd believe it when I see it with your last comment. Probably, the districts
would only give them to regular education students and not LD or SED. This
comes from long standing experience with the Special Education system.

Dawn
Special Education Advocate
Online teacher

SUBJECT:  Assistive Technology   Date:  97-01-03 08:41:39 EST
From:  DVC Mom

Wheels,

Presently I'm a very big supporter for assistive technology for the disabled.
This has allowed many to lead more productive and independent lives.  I am
one of 2 teachers from my school system who participated in a grant funded
Assistive Technology Project (got 6 hrs. of graduate credit)  and I would
like to get certified as an assistive technology evaluator.   I'm presently
an SLP with a strong interest in augmentative communication. Sorry if I
offended anyone with the last post.  Technology is the one area in education
where we definitely need more bucks!!   Those children who are fortunate
enough to have computers at home are already way ahead of the game.  My 14
year old son can already program and design web pages.  He has had access to
a computer since he was 3.   BTW, I've had all this training and I'm still
using an APPLE IIgs at school.  A new computer would be nice this NEW YEAR.
Hmmmm....I guess I was voicing what I wish I could have under the new
"IDEA".

SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  97-01-03 10:39:45 EST
From:  RhoLaren

Mom424--
Why did you have to buy your son's books? That is not right. What was the
rationale?

SUBJECT:  The Friday News-#24-NPND   Date:  97-01-03 11:11:14 EST
From:  ALauritzen

January 3, 1997

Staff Discussion Draft of IDEA  Produced in House

NPND received a copy of the Staff Discussion Draft of the IDEA Improvement
Act of 1997 from  the Committee on Economic and Educational Opportunities. It
should be noted that House leaders plan to introduce the bill early in the
Congressional session. Many disabilities advocacy groups are urging more time
to gain input before the bill is introduced. They feel that sufficient time
must be made available to develop bipartisan support for this important
legislation.

As promised, the Staff Discussion Draft is silent on the issue of cessation
of services. This issue,  of  course, still worries many disabilities
advocates, along with a number of other issues from the bill that was passed
by the House in 1996.
---
Letter from Sen. Jeffords about Changes in Labor & Human Resources Committee

December 12, 1996

Dear Patty:

In January, I will become Chairman of the Senate Labor and Human Resources
committee for the 105th  Congress. For me, this is a dream come true. I have
devoted my 22 years in Congress to working on the very issues before the
committee. The challenges are great, but I hope our success will be greater.

As you know, the Labor and Human Resources Committee today has subcommittee
that deal with issues related to aging; children and families; disability
policy; and education, arts and humanities. Health care issues are considered
at the full committee level.

In the new congress, the committee will retain its subcommittees on aging, as
well as on children and  families. Two new subcommittees will be formed, one
responsible for public health and safety, the other responsible for policy
will be addressed at the full committee level. The first reauthorization
hearing before the full committee in 1997 will be on the Individuals with
Disabilities Education Act.

Success in this new role will only be possible with help and ideas from you
and organizations such as the National Parent Network. We were able to enact
P.L. 94-142 in my first term in the House, and the ADA in my first term in
the Senate, only by working together. But I know that communication must be a
two-way  street, which is why I wanted to share with you the new committee
structure for the 105th Congress.

I look forward to working with you and the members of the National Parent
Network on disability legislation during the year ahead. I hope I can count
on your support.

Sincerely,
s: James M. Jeffords
---
SSI Changes Underway

The new welfare law changes childrens eligibility for Supplemental Security
Income (SSI). As a result, some children especially those with mental,
emotional and behavior problems will lose the SSI cash benefits they now
receive. Some will also lose their Medicaid. The new law will also make it
harder for children to qualify for SSI in the future. Parents should be sure
to respond to any notices that their childs case will be reviewed. For an
information sheet describing the changes and review process surrounding SSI,
please contact NPND, or Marty Ford at the Arc Governmental Affairs Office;
1730 K St., #1212, Washington, DC 20006; [e-mail] (e-mail)
---
Not Dead Yet

On Wednesday, January 8, the U.S. Supreme court will hear arguments in favor
of killing people  with disabilities for our own good. Not Dead Yet will lead
a vigil of 20,000 Americans at the foot of the Supreme Court steps at ten
clock that morning to let the Court know that we want to live, that we won't
die quietly. For information contact Not Dead Yet; 61 Brighton St.;
Rochester, NY 14607;fax [phone]
--
Inclusion Victory

In early December, a federal judge ruled that the school system in Loudon
County, Virginia must teach Mark Hartmann, an 11-year-old boy with autism, in
regular classrooms. This two-year battle has won national attention, and ends
with a victory for mainstreaming. Copies of the court decision are available
from NPND.

SUBJECT:  Re:Assistive Technology   Date:  97-01-03 12:32:43 EST
From:  Wheels2082

DVC,

Didn't mean it to be a criticism. Through my online courses and my personal
experiences as a LD student, I know it wouldn't happen for the disabled
students. A few days ago I outlined the trips that I would have loved to
attend if given the chance in my freshman year of high school but couldn't
because of my placement.
On the testify list for the House as of today. Put my name in with Riggs who
is the chairman of the committee who will be holding hearings.

Dawn
Online teacher
Special Education Advocate

SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  97-01-03 13:00:34 EST
From:  DRICCIPAL

I feel real bad for the teachers out there who want to teach disabled
children and can't because of the Socially/Emotionally/Maladjusted kids.
There really should be separate legislation so these children can be placed
where their needs are best met.

My son is a severe dyslexic with an IQ of 138.  He is a well-mannered,
well-dressed, moral christian young adult with high standards.  He just says
that these kids are idiots and ignors them, but I don't like the influence of
their behaviors around my son.  What am I to do, since he is in a public
school and I cannot afford to send him off to private school.  Is high school
freshman too late for home schooling?  Now they are talking about inclusion
for my son, who is not ready for that type of transition.  His disability is
so severe that he was reading at a grade 1 level in 5th grade only after
intervention from a specialist using a Modified Reading Recovery method.  At
our 4th grade triennial all were in agreement that he would never read.  He
now reads at grade level 4 and gaining.

It's sad, he wants to become a doctor.  What do I say to him.  He's certainly
intelligent enough, but with the system the say it is, I don't see how.

If anyone has any ideas or suggestions, please email me at [e-mail].

Good Luck Your Hard Working Special Ed Teachers!!!!!!!!!!


SUBJECT:  Hearings on IDEA   Date:  97-01-03 18:41:12 EST
From:  DVC Mom

Dawn,

Please keep us informed here on how the hearings go.  I think it's great that
you're really getting to testify.  Good luck!

SUBJECT:  Re:The Friday
News-#24-NPND   Date:  97-01-03 21:28:50 EST
From:  SusanS29

" This two-year battle has won national attention, and ends with a victory
for mainstreaming. Copies of the court decision are available from NPND."

Who is NPND? Where do we write to get a copy of this?

SUBJECT:  Re:The Friday
News-#24-NPND   Date:  97-01-03 22:16:17 EST
From:  ALauritzen

NPND is the National Parent Network on Disabilities. E-mail [e-mail]

SUBJECT:
Re:NEED HORROR STORIES   Date:  97-01-03 22:32:25 EST
From:  CIsabel435

I work in a school that the principal wants to bring more and more special ed
kids in only for the reason to bring more money into the school district. she
does not take into consideration the time, effort or manpower it takes to
deal with each child. She just basiclly brings them in and says here you
go-deal with it. We have a mainstreamed program and when she brings in more
special needs kids, it really puts a strain on us all together. She also has
no clue what goes on in our classroom, she thinks adding associates is the
answer. there are 5 in the class already!! Is thius a problem for anyone
else??Please respond. laura

SUBJECT:  Re:Tips For Parents   Date:  97-01-04 08:09:50 EST
From:  Mittar

The phrase "armed with an advocate" concerns me.  It seems threatening and
intimidating.  I have been in confernces and meetings where the advocate
ended up supporting the view of the school, because so much had been tried !
I think both sides need to be heard to benifit the child, but NOT in an
adversarial tone!

SUBJECT:  Re:NEED HORROR STORIES   Date:  97-01-04 10:53:19 EST
From:  Wheels2082

Laura,

My response depends whether or not you've got tenure. If you don't have
tenure, you've got to watch how you fight the principal on this issue
otherwise you're job is at stake. Principals along with school boards hate
people who make waves about what is going wrong with their concept of
inclusion that is no better than dumping without supports. The way to handle
this situation under this scenario is to start having the parents complain
about what is going wrong. If enough pressure comes about, something will
probably happen.
A person who has tenure follow this route. File a grievance with your union.
Complain about the principal is bringing more inclusioned disabled students
into the school without proper supports in the classroom.
NOW EVERYONE DON'T GET ON ME FOR CHANGING MY OPINION ON INCLUSION. I'M A
SUPPORTER FOR INCLUSION FOR THOSE WHO READY FOR THE GENERAL EDUCATION
CLASSROOM BUT NOT UNDER DUMPING SITUATIONS.

Dawn
Online teacher
Special Education Advocate

SUBJECT:  Re:Tips For Parents   Date:  97-01-04 11:40:57 EST
From:  SusanS29

"... The phrase "armed with an advocate" concerns me."

Except that I wouldn't put too much emphasis on a person's choice of words in
such informal conversation. I have worked as an advocate and steadfastly
advocate for what is best for the *child.* That's not always what the parent
thinks is best, and sometimes (gasp) it's what the school thinks should
happen.

I'm an advocate but not a hired gun.

SUBJECT:  Re:Tips For Parents   Date:  97-01-04 17:58:04 EST
From:  Mittar

Unfortunately, it seems that we (schools) get "threated" by parents saying
they will use an advocate.  Perhaps I should say that it seems that parents
use an advocate sometimes as they might be threatening the school with
something.  I really believe at in the school I work in, we bend over
backwards for the student.  I think fear of legal action has caused our
school to play cover your a**  and be sure to do as the parents want.  Is
that the way it SHOULD be?????

SUBJECT:  Re:Legislative Actions Conti   Date:  97-01-04 21:45:37 EST
From:  HSHT

The laws will always be the same but it is the way that we write out the law
is the problem. There is NO clear cut defination as too who can be labled
disabled.

SUBJECT:  Re:Tips For Parents   Date:  97-01-04 22:54:05 EST
From:  SusanS29

":I think fear of legal action has caused our school to play cover your a**
and be sure to do as the parents want.  Is that the way it SHOULD be?????"

No, it really shouldn't be that way... and it's not something I would
participate in, but I know very well it happens.

SUBJECT:  Re:Tips For Parents   Date:  97-01-05 01:17:40 EST
From:  Wheels2082

Let me be frank with you. I've seen enough horror stories other than what I
read on this particular message board. Parents come to my online for help to
get the services outlined in their children's IEP like not getting to be with
a regular class for lunch. I've heard enough horror stories between today and
August 1996 that you can't believe what is happening all over the United
States concerning Special Education.

Dawn
Online teacher
Special Education Advocate
Insuring that all children receive the education to help them reach their
fullest potential.

SUBJECT:  Re:Legislative Actions Conti   Date:  97-01-05 01:19:57 EST
From:  Wheels2082

The problem is with the broad definitions of the disabilities. All it is a
laundry list of characteristics falling across a broad spectrum. Try reading
about learning disabilities. It makes my case in point.

Dawn
Online teacher
Special Education Advocate
Insuring that all children receive the education that they need.

SUBJECT:  Re:
Advocate   Date:  97-01-05 08:43:23 EST
From:  Mars000210

Hello, this is only my opinion a parent should have an advocate from the very
begining of the process of having there child tested for a disability. This
would help the parent make wiser diecisions that are in tune for the
child/school/and teachers. The system is confusing enough and when you are a
parent trying to read all the laws and language of the testing for your child
it is hard to come to reasonable conclusions. A good advocate can eleminate a
lot of the misunderstandings and assure the childs needs are met. My personal
experience looking back over the years without an advocate have shown me that
a lot of stress could have been avoided if another perspecitve could have
been pointed out to me, but instead I was left to figure it out on my own.
Maybe teams in the schools could consider not only having advocate being
assigned for the child but one for the parents as well.

SUBJECT:  Re:Tips For
Parents   Date:  97-01-05 10:31:04 EST
From:  Mittar

What can legislation do to prevent schools from playing CYA and getting the
most appropriate education for the child?  In this age of lawsuits, the thing
I find I spend more time doing is NOT teaching...it paperwork, documentation,
and making sure all the "i"s" are dotted and the ""t's" are crossed.  That is
not why I went into teaching and not what it sholud be about!

SUBJECT:  Re:Tips
For Parents   Date:  97-01-05 11:57:08 EST
From:  RhoLaren

Wheels,

You are the best thing to come to these boards since... well since whatever.
Thank you for saying that these problems seem to be coming from all over the
country. When I first signed on and started writing on these boards, there
were some people who insisted that I was being critical of my school system.
There was no way I could convince them that, no, I was responding to
situations I had heard about from people from all over my area, or, if from
these boards, all over the country.  Maybe it is reactions like the ones I
received when I started to communicate, that are so familiar to regular
education teachers, that no wonder they play dumb, or rigid, or "keep me
away."  What is encountered on these boards, is very much like what is
encountered in schools when a regular education teacher tries to question
ANYTHING or get help. Oh, and the line I like the best is this: you don't
love children. What a cop out. What a sidestepper. What a non--sequitor. Now
that I have ventilated, thank you, again. What are we going to do to to
ensure that ALL children get what they need, the IDEA, 504, and
non-classified.

SUBJECT:  Re:Tips For Parents   Date:  97-01-05 12:06:05 EST
From:  Wheels2082

Spoke from my heart when I get on my soap box even late at night. Just trying
to make a difference on this board and my online course.

Dawn
Online teacher
Special Education Advocate

SUBJECT:  Re: Advocate   Date:  97-01-05 12:37:17 EST
From:  SusanS29

"Hello, this is only my opinion a parent should have an advocate from the
very begining of the process of having there child tested for a disability.
This would help the parent make wiser diecisions that are in tune for the
child/school/and teachers."

But Mars where is the money going to come from to pay all these advocates?
Will it drain our educational resources still further?

SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent
with IDEA   Date:  97-01-05 13:34:47 EST
From:  TLVAIL

Not everywhere and not if you're child needs something different from the
regular curriculum.

SUBJECT:  Re:advocate   Date:  97-01-05 23:06:18 EST
From:  Mars000210

Susan,  your right the advoctes are very busy keeping up with the demands
that they have. They depend on the parents financial support. I give to the
organization that helped me even though I hope I will not have to use them in
the future. My money will help the organiztion to help someone else.
Advocates aren't needed throughtout the years just in the begining to help
parents learn how to cope with the system. Would this not help put less
burden on the system then we have now with team meetings being used to argue
instead of advocate for our children. Less time wasted usually means a saving
somewhere. If PTA's can raise funds to make the schools function better maybe
they could be ask to raise funds to help obtain advocate for their
schools.

SUBJECT:  Re:advocate   Date:  97-01-06 00:16:27 EST
From:  SusanS29

"Advocates aren't needed throughtout the years just in the begining to help
parents learn how to cope with the system. "

Where I am, parents are guided through the system very well, every step of
the way. Here, advocates are only rarely needed except when special ed has
been denied or a 504 is needed for ADD.

I think needs will vary greatly from location to location.

SUBJECT:
Re:ALauritzen   Date:  97-01-06 00:37:25 EST
From:  Truman8

Bottom line - THERE IS NOT ENOUGH MONEY - we all recognize that fact.

While I can appreciate your concern for your class, I am concerned by your
characterization of parents who pursue due process for their children.  You
are right - some parents get more than they probably should.  However, many
kids get less than they should.  While IDEA may be flawed it has brought the
US from a time where literally millions of children with disabilities were
getting no education at all to a time where we are actually talking about how
to make education work for all of our children.

The first step in this discussion should be to appreciate that this is an
emotionally charged topic which should be treated with respect for the
struggles of all involved.  Rather than tossing out horror stories, which as
you suggested we all have, let's start making suggestions, specific
suggestions, of what you would like to see changed.  I am sure that both
parents and teachers have a great deal to offer.

SUBJECT:  Re:ALauritzen   Date:  97-01-06 12:50:09 EST
From:  RhoLaren

Truman8---
Great suggestions in your letter. Start the ball rolling. How would YOU like
to see the law altered, or the implementation altered. You have ideas that
are needed.

SUBJECT:  Re:Are you lookin' at me?   Date:  97-01-06 16:59:46 EST
From:  Truman8

Now you put me on the spot!  Here goes...

I have recently begun to feel that IDEA is a great law for a time gone past.
IDEA is all about access and protection, which is certainly still needed, but
it deals little with quality.  In many cases, we are no longer talking about
access to schools, we are talking about how to best educate students once
they are there.  I'm not suggesting that we throw away IDEA, because there
are kids who still are not getting in to the schools.  I'm talking about
taking the next step.  I would like to see a new law (talk about dreaming the
impossible dream) which address the level of education provided to all of our
children.  I'm talking about quality.

Now you're probably saying "Truman8 is really avoiding the question" --and
you would probably be right.  Here is a concrete suggestion.  Since it is
much easier to talk about implementation problems rather than crafting
changes to IDEA, guess that's where I'll start.

A few weeks ago someone told me "Its not even worth going to an IEP meeting."
That sentiment needs to be changed.  We have created a process where parents
(who care deeply about their children) and teachers (who care greatly about
their students) are pitted against each other.  I think we need to take a
step back and figure out how to approach IEP meetings so that teachers and
parents can acknowledge that they are often advocating for the same people.
IEP meetings should not be considered mere formalities on the way to due
process.  Teachers and parents should not be forced to become such unlikely
adversaries.

I have a hunch that there are any number of parents and teachers who could
suggest ways of making team meetings less threatening, less adversarial and
more productive.  Any ideas???



SUBJECT:  Re:Are you lookin' at me?   Date:  97-01-06 17:23:23 EST
From:  R u Niz

I have rarely attended an IEP meeting that was adversarial.

Give plenty of notice to the parent prior to the meeting--by law 10 school
days--and be prepared to reschedule if a parent requests.
Greet the parent in a friendly manner.
Sit with the parent--not on "opposing " sides of the table.
Be prepared to reflect upon the positives of the year.  If you have test
results to discuss--explain them clearly.
Try not to overwhelm the parent with information--and speak in a language
that can be understood--not "educationese".
Explain what you feel are the needs that should be adressed in the coming
year and invite parent input.
Even after the meeting ends and the papers are signed, I encourage the parent
to call me if they get home and suddenly realize they have unanswered
questions or concerns.

All of the above were suggested as part of my special ed training and I'm
sure none of this is new.  IEP meetings were never intended to be
adversarial.  They are a collaborative event.  I have gone "head to Head" at
times with parents, but those are usually strange cases and not
representative of general experience.  Even then I have said to a parent:
"Hey!  We're on the same team!"

So many teachers have written in horror stories--and it's good to share and
get stuff off your chest.  I think it would be good for some of us to share
the "good news", too.

SUBJECT:  Re:Are you lookin' at me?   Date:  97-01-06 18:33:40 EST
From:  RhoLaren

There are good news stories. There are also too many bad ones. We are talking
about things we would like to change. I am glad you had the training you did.
Are the regular education teachers in your building happy with IEPs? Do they
dislike having special children in the classroom?   From the tone of your
post, it seems that the regular education teacher was not in those meetings
you talk about. Could have been a misreading on my part. If the regular
education teacher was not in those meetings, why not? If I misread, I am
truly sorry.

SUBJECT:  Re:r u niz   Date:  97-01-06 20:23:27 EST
From:  Truman8

I wish all the people who attended IEP meetings shared your experience and
your training.

I really liked two of your suggestions for non-adversarial meetings.  It
makes world's of difference for everyone involved if the GOOD about a child
is stressed.  I think sometimes everyone is so concerned with getting to the
bottom line, that the good stuff gets glossed over to everyone's detriment.

I also liked the fact that you never allow parents and teachers to sit across
the table from one another.

How would your recommend involving a parent who is frightened by the whole
process to the point of physically removing herself from the meeting and
refusing to come back in???  Where could this trainwreck be avoided??? (The
parent received notice.)

SUBJECT:  Re:RhoLaren   Date:  97-01-06 20:25:49 EST
From:  Truman8

Do you find that regular ed. teachers are left out of the loop when it comes
to IEP meetings?  Are they then expected to implement what they had no part
in planning?  What would help regular ed. teachers take a stronger, more
visible role in the meetings if this is true???

SUBJECT:  Re: GOOD MEETINGS   Date:  97-01-06 22:08:26 EST
From:  DebbieFr

One of the forms that we use list present competencies of the child. We are
only allowes to put the good. This helps us remember to look for those
positives about all kids.

SUBJECT:  IEP   Date:  97-01-07 00:08:26 EST
From:  Arloateach

Meetings I have directed are informative, productive and goals are set for
the next year that are appropriate for the child.  It is only when parents
demand 5 days of speech for 30 minutes a day instead of the school's limited
time of 3 times a week for 30 minutes.  Or when parents want OT for their
child when adaptive P.E. is offered. Or the parent demands a one to one aide
with Lovas Training, then the IEP gets ugly, then is it usually not the
teacher that is in the position of being the ogre, but the district who can
not because of $$ constraints meet those demands. I have been in the middle
position many many times and fear losing my job it I would even think about
asking for 5 days of speech for one of my students.  I have referred several
of my kids for OT and the district as has come down on me pretty hard.  I
still believe it is a money issue for districts, and I have complained enough
that I have finally seen some numbers, and I was shocked at the cost and
services kids get at district expense.  Something has to change.  Funding
should not come from the schools.  Only partial govt. funds are paid back to
districts who have involved sped. programs.  When parents sue or go to Fair
Hearings the funds come out of general funds that take away from regular ed.
Now as a parent of a regular ed. kids that does not make me a very happy
parent either.  I have some strong beliefs about where sped.  I believe that
some kids benefit from a small class setting.  I also believe some children
are not approptiately placed in schools.  Some children do not learn, and
that is a fact.  Harsh as it may sound.  I have seen children come into the
school system functioning at the 2 year old level and they go out functioning
at the two year old level.  Is the school setting then appropriate?  I say
no!  It is not because their teachers were not caring either.  Is school for
all kids?  No!  Redefine learning and change some of the sp ed qualifying
criteria.  I have kids in my class that used to in SH classes, my class now
has no room for moderately handicapped kids, and so they now sit once again
in the back of regular classes and are not identified until it is too late.
What a disservice to children.  I am very frustrated with the system.  There
are too many kids that are not being helped by LH classes due to, too many SH
children in public schools.  There must be another way!  Moderate
disabilities children can be educated and helped through the system and will
become functioning productive adults.  Please give them the chance they
deserve also.

SUBJECT:  Re:IEP   Date:  97-01-07 09:58:28 EST
From:  Wheels2082

Some of the raised issues were there long before the 1990's. I can remember
them being there as early as the 1970's especially after one district refused
to recognize learning disabilities. And this was late 70's to early '80s.
If you were a legislator and could pass anything you wanted to with ease,
where would you place the cut off for services. I've seen pretty much all
levels of intelligence. I can tell you that I've met a curious
severe/profound mental retarded teenager who was very curious about his
environment but was on a feeding tube. I've also seen no motivation on the
part of Learning Disabled students in the public schools by the time they
reached high school.

Dawn
Online teacher
Special Education Advocate

SUBJECT:  IDEA   Date:  97-01-07 11:07:12 EST
From:  Wheels2082

Hi everyone,

In an earlier post, I mentioned about placing my name on the list to testify
in front of the House committee about IDEA. About fifteen minutes ago, I
received a phone call asking some questions about why I wanted to testify
which was to share insights about Special Education from my long experience.
I can tell you there are numerous stories in my brain.
I was told by the caller today that he would get back to me if they are
interested in me testifying in front of the committee. I hope that I make the
pannel.
Found out one of the reforms that I was hoping for is on the list. Improved
teacher training about Special Education for General Education teachers.
Since, inclusion is becoming a reality in more schools and districts, this
reform is necessary.

Dawn
Online teacher
Special Education Advocate

SUBJECT:  Re:IDEA   Date:  97-01-07 11:45:21 EST
From:  DoreenN738

Wow!  I am back from Christmas vacation,and just checked in with the board.
I am very gratified that my posting got folks talking.
First,I would like to thank ALauritzen for her courage,intelligence,and
heart.  Thank you for sharing your story. Thank you for sharing with us your
information from the NPND.  But again thank you for sharing your personal
journey.  It gives me the courage to continue on my journey.  You are my
sister in the struggle,and I love you.  You are the "salt of the earth",and
"a lamp unto my feet."
     We all have to figure out a way to meet the needs of ALL GOD'S CHILDREN.
ALL CHILDREN are a blessing.
And until we see ALL CHILDREN as a blessing,not a burden,  (Trust me I am not
in denial) will we see the hidden and not so hidden potential in ALL OF US.
For all of us fighting for social justice I would like to share this quote
with you all:
                           Our Deepest Fear
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate.
Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
It is our Light,not our Darkness,that most frighten us.
We ask ourselves,"Who am I to be brillant,gorgeous, talented,fabulous?"
Actually,who are you not to be?
YOU ARE A CHILD OF GOD.
YOUR PLAYING SMALL DOES NOT SERVE THE WORLD.
There is nothing enlightening about shrinking so that other people won't feel
unsure around you.
We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us.
IT IS NOT JUST IN SOME OF US;IT IS IN EVERYONE.
As we let our Light shine,we unconsciously give other people permission to do
the same.
As we are liberated from our own fear,our presence automatically liberates
others.
            Nelson Mandela from his 1994 Inaugural Speech
May we all continue to "let our Light shine."

SUBJECT:  DoreenN738   Date:  97-01-07 14:47:37 EST
From:  ALauritzen

Thank You! from the Bottom of my HEART!

SUBJECT:  Re:Are you lookin' at me?   Date:  97-01-07 19:03:33 EST
From:  R u Niz

The regular ed teacher (or teachers when appropriate) are invited to the IEP
meetings.  If the teacher is unable to attend, I usually ask that they let me
know of any points they would like brought up in their absence.  Most of the
time, the regular ed teacher and I are on the same page--no pun intended.

I haven't had a lot of experience with parents requesting more services than
the team has felt are appropriate.  I have had some experience with parents
who want to remove their child from special ed due to the label.

This year I have been dealing with two parents who I find a bit
difficult--one seems to have personal problems that have her claiming that
she cannot work with her child, the other is in deep denial about her child's
ability--the child is 12 and is functioning with a mental age of about 9 and
reading and doing math at about a third grade level--"I would like my
daughter to be reading at a 7th grade level by the end of the Year."

I let the parent who seems to be on the verge of a nervous breakdown come to
me to vent.  It is emotionally exhausting--but she seems to need this. I
don't offer her advice for anything beyond helping her child ( I don't
counsel her).  This seems to reduce the anger she feels toward the school.

The other parent claims that when no one is in the room with her child, the
child can perform grade level work.  I basically tell her that we don't see
that performance level in school.  I know that homework is done by mom and
copied by child.  I have kept a file of assignments done in school and
repeated for homework as proof.

These cases are not really the norm for me.  I usually have one or two tough
IEP meetings as do my colleagues.  The majority of our parents and the
regular ed teachers are supportive.

SUBJECT:  Re:Are you lookin' at me?   Date:  97-01-07 23:06:27 EST
From:  RhoLaren

Sounds like you have done a great job. Congratulations.

SUBJECT:  Re:Are you
lookin' at me?   Date:  97-01-08 00:21:59 EST
From:  SusanS29

"I have a hunch that there are any number of parents and teachers who could
suggest ways of making team meetings less threatening, less adversarial and
more productive.  Any ideas???"

Fairly or unfairly, I think the bulk of the burden here falls on the special
educator, who usually "chairs" the IEP committee, and who usually has the
strongest opinion about what the child needs -- and knows the lingo,
vocabulary, etc. to put it across. He or she has the best understanding of
how the "system" works and often is capable of manipulating it to some extent
to get a desired outcome.

For myself I saw people *visibly relax* as soon as I started throwing out
multiple options instead of one suggestion. When only one idea was on the
table, it took on the personality of "the Order from Ms. Expert" -- not a
position that brings unity to a group (grin).

With several options out for solving whatever problem was faced, it got all
people involved, and *actively* involved. Everyone *truly* participates in
the decision-making.

It's all well and good to say things like "All teachers have to be special
educators..." it would take two years to pass the law, and they'd grandfather
in all current teachers as well as those already enrolled in programs, rather
than pull the rug out from under them.

For the forseeable future, we have to find a way to get along.  :)

SUBJECT:  Re:r
u niz   Date:  97-01-08 00:27:28 EST
From:  SusanS29

"How would your recommend involving a parent who is frightened by the whole
process to the point of physically removing herself from the meeting and
refusing to come back in???  Where could this trainwreck be avoided??? (The
parent received notice.)"

A lot of times the parents of these children have gone through exactly what
their children are enduring -- but without any emotional or educational
support.

*Very* often the parents walk into these meetings carrying scars. Sometimes
they're terrified. We had a devil of a time getting cooperation from one
parent once, even though her kg daughter didn't say a word and played with
the other children by pretending to be their pet dog. She'd get on all fours.

Well we did careful testing and observations, and discovered potentially
normal intelligence but a *severe* language delay.

By odd events, eight years later I was working in the district as an
educational examiner, giving the educational portion of tests for three-year
re-evaluations. This child was one I tested! She was doing average work
(which is what we would expect without the history of severe language
problems), receiving a small amount of resource room help.

Then I found out what had been going on with the mother. She had a retarded
brother and was *terrified* that her daughter was retarded and would end up
warehoused as her brother had been. She was doing the best she could to fight
for her daughter, because she saw what we saw -- these glimpses of
intelligence.

She was right, but I had to fight for her too; they *did* nearly (and
incorrectly) diagnose her as retarded.

SUBJECT:  Re:IEP   Date:  97-01-08 00:32:07 EST
From:  SusanS29

" It is only when parents demand 5 days of speech for 30 minutes a day
instead of the school's limited time of 3 times a week for 30 minutes.  Or
when parents want OT for their child when adaptive P.E. is offered."

But where I live, if a child *needs* speech (more typically language) every
day, he or she *gets* it very day. And every child who was eligible for OT
got it, even if the district had to contract out for the services.

I'm not sure about Lovaas; I'm not an expert in autism, but the program is
supposed too meet the child's needs. If speech is "offered" via a three times
a week program,  but is truly *needed* five times a week -- the *program* has
to be modified for this child.

Adaptive PE is not a substitute for OT.

I agree funding is a real problem, but meanwhile I do think programs have to
meet the letter of the law. If you save money by cutting corners where they
really shouldn't be cut, the funding problem is artificially hidden.

SUBJECT:
Re:r u niz   Date:  97-01-08 08:57:12 EST
From:  RhoLaren

Susan,
Right. But not only in special ed. We have so many parents who carry scars
from their schooling. They sometimes seem obstinate,but just do not want
their child to suffer. It is important to really talk with them. Many of
these people do not trust EDUCATORS (or anyone in authority, or titles), but
they will trust an individual if they think that individual really likes
their child and likes them. They are GREAT at nosing out when they are being
patronized. Respecting parents, talking with them about the weather, etc,
until you get to know them, goes a long way towards working together for
their child. I worked for many years in an area where the parents, in many
cases, were the people that all the middle class rules and regs were to
protect me from. They were great people, and very loyal, and just wanted what
we all do---respect.

SUBJECT:  Re:IEP   Date:  97-01-08 10:00:48 EST
From:  ALauritzen

There is a resource available to all of you in every state, it is called the
Parent Training Center.  The consult and train on IEP, Grief, Rights and
Responsibilities, early childhood.  This training is for parents but all
educators are welcome. The staff of most parent centers are parents of
children with disabilities themselves.
Perhaps of schools offered their trainings to parents perhaps co-sponsored
with one of the disability support groups and teachers as well as parents
were invited, this could be the beginning of a common ground for all to work
for the best educational services for all students.

SUBJECT:  Re:SusanS29   Date:  97-01-08 10:12:18 EST
From:  Truman8

...on seeing parents "visibly relax"

Great suggestions..I will definitely try the multiple option approach.  I
imagine it would really allow the parent to shine.  Parental input would be
absolutely necessary rather than having the appearance of being a formality.

Question:  Would you also suggest that parents who bring their own ideas to
meetings bring multiple options??

SUBJECT:  Re:r u niz   Date:  97-01-08 10:16:14 EST
From:  Truman8

SusanS29 - thanks for the story...I've got to ask you another question after
reading that one!

Question:  If a parent refuses to participate verbally in a team meeting for
exactly the reasons you suggest, what would you do?  Continue the meeting but
repeatedly reinforce the parents presence and input?  Tkae a break and speak
independently with the parent to find out what their concerns are in a less
threatening environment??

By the way...the story you shared could have been a biography of the parent I
was thinking of when I phrased the original question!

SUBJECT:  Re:IEP   Date:  97-01-08 17:03:07 EST
From:  TLVAIL

<I'm not sure about Lovaas; I'm not an expert in autism, but the program is
supposed too meet the child's needs. >  But is it the *only* way to meet the
child's needs?  I think that is where the problems come in at times-  To many
people (parents & teachers) thinking there is only one way to do
something.

SUBJECT:  Re:IEP   Date:  97-01-08 17:15:19 EST
From:  Wheels2082

Personally when it comes to instructional methods with any disability, I've
found that not one teaching method works with well with every student even
with the same disability classification. This is especially true with
Learning disabilities.

Dawn
Online Teacher
Special Education Advocate

SUBJECT:  Re:IEP   Date:  97-01-08 20:46:09 EST
From:  Arloateach

Not one method is possible to use with such diverse classes.  If one method
or approach doesn't work one must try another.  If they don't work then,
consult, that's what district program specialists are supposed to be for.
But good luck on that one.  Ours just comes in the room to annouce I am
getting a new kid.  I asked for help with an autistic child in my room from
the district maybe over 10 times.  (I have pushed my limits too far with
respect to what I think is best for my students and what the district says I
have to say is best for my students)  I received absolutely no help,
suggestion, or even acknowledgement that I needed help with servicing this
child's needs.  Meanwhile she was disrupting my whole program and affecting
all of the other kids behaviors in my room .  It was awful, but the child was
not placed appropriately, the parent demanded placement in my room, would not
allow her to be placed elsewhere.  I was getting nowhere in meeting this
child's needs.  Teachers need to feel like they are making progress with
their children, or at least I do, or I begin to feel inadequate, then
frustrated.  I also will admit I do not enjoy teaching SH.  I went into sped.
teaching LH and I love it.  I am not good at SH and do not even have an SH
credential, but the law, IDEA 94-142 allows me to have up to a certain
percentage of SH kids in my LH classroom.  It is like asking a regular
teacher to take a kindergarten child into her sixth grade classroom and
making him learn all the curriculum. As a parent I can understand that a
parent would want the best education possible, but sometimes it is not
possible, 5 days of speech in a public school setting is unheard of, no
district offers that much speech, at least in California.  No where in IDEA
etc. does the law state best possible.  Parents need to be realistic, and do
most of the work with their child at home.  As ALL parents should.  I can
tell in my room which parents work with their kids and which don't.  I know
one thing that has really helped me with making my parents involved and
informed.  I send home a parent letter every week. (It takes about 2 yours at
home on Thur. nights on the computer)It informs parents of what we have done
during the week, color red, in and out, nursery rhyme, and I include art,
language development, physical exercise actities to the extent of being
pretty detailed.  I then tell them what we will be working on next week.  I
make sure they have ideas to reinforce what I may be working on in class.
Then, at the end of the regular form letter, I hand write a little note to
each parent about something their child did that was unique or I know they
would be proud to hear.  If there have been problems, this is taken care
immediately by phone.  I have found that this is very helpful in making
parents relax, all they want is to be informed in their child's progress most
of the time.  Then there are those that want a cure and make outrageous
demands.  Has to be some sort of moderation, mediation, or change in the
law.

SUBJECT:  Re:r u niz   Date:  97-01-08 22:52:51 EST
From:  SusanS29

"Right. But not only in special ed. We have so many parents who carry scars
from their schooling. They sometimes seem obstinate,but just do not want
their child to suffer. It is important to really talk with them. Many of
these people do not trust EDUCATORS (or anyone in authority, or titles), but
they will trust an individual if they think that individual really likes
their child and likes them."

Yes, that's the trick -- to win them over on a person-to-person basis, not
"teacher-to-parent."

SUBJECT:  Re:SusanS29   Date:  97-01-08 22:54:58 EST
From:  SusanS29

"Great suggestions..I will definitely try the multiple option approach.  I
imagine it would really allow the parent to shine.  Parental input would be
absolutely necessary rather than having the appearance of being a formality.

Question:  Would you also suggest that parents who bring their own ideas to
meetings bring multiple options??"

Absolutely. Parents need to become active members of these teams. It's one
thing for, say, an adminiatrator to tell a special teacher he or she
"refuses" to do something -- and another to stare down the parent of the
needful child.

SUBJECT:  Re:r u niz   Date:  97-01-08 22:56:48 EST
From:  SusanS29

"Question:  If a parent refuses to participate verbally in a team meeting for
exactly the reasons you suggest, what would you do?  Continue the meeting but
repeatedly reinforce the parents presence and input?"

IEP's shouldn't be threatening. If a parent brings that feeling to the table,
closing the meeting won't change that and will undoubtedly raise everyone's
level of anxiety.

I drew the parent out, making sure they understood what everyone was saying.
I'd ask open-ended questions like "What do you see as Johnny's strengths?"
Then I'd write them down in the IEP. Avoid "yes-no" questions, and get them
talking about their kid, and they're "in" the meeting.

SUBJECT:  Re:IEP   Date:  97-01-08 22:57:30 EST
From:  SusanS29

"<I'm not sure about Lovaas; I'm not an expert in autism, but the program is
supposed too meet the child's needs. >  But is it the *only* way to meet the
child's needs?  I think that is where the problems come in at times-  To many
people (parents & teachers) thinking there is only one way to do something."

Absolutely. That's why I like multiple suggestions. It opens minds.  :)

SUBJECT:
A Question, Please   Date:  97-01-09 08:19:52 EST
From:  MPWinstead

I'm an LD specialist working with an 8th grader who has severe ADD, severe
LD, and severe dyspraxia. Over Christmas, he was hospitalized because of
"stress over school" Since then, his doctors have recommended that he receive
home-bound teaching for the rest of the year. The schools are saying that he
does not need a new IEP and that their home-bound teachers are required to
come to his house only 3-5 hours a WEEK. Any suggestions/comments????
THANKS!

SUBJECT:  Re:A Question, Please   Date:  97-01-09 09:19:12 EST
From:  ALauritzen

It is my understanding if there is a change in services and placement for a
student, that there needs to be an IEP meeting to discuss what the students
needs will be at the new location and what kind of services need to be
provided. The school can not just say that the teacher will come 3-5 hours a
week.
Check the Law!


SUBJECT:  Re:A Question, Please   Date:  97-01-09 11:20:04 EST
From:  MPWinstead

That's my understanding also. I'm in the process of checking. Its a jungle
out there when trying to find out info like this! Thanks for your
response!

SUBJECT:  Re:A Question, Please   Date:  97-01-09 12:20:03 EST
From:  SusanS29

"The schools are saying that he does not need a new IEP and that their
home-bound teachers are required to come to his house only 3-5 hours a WEEK.
Any suggestions/comments????"

That's how it's done here. The home-bound teacher doesn't spend all that much
time with the student -- leaves work instead. Doesn't seem right...

SUBJECT:
Re:A Question, Please   Date:  97-01-09 12:21:02 EST
From:  SusanS29

It is a change of placement, but the essential issue (I thought) here was the
amount of time. I don't know of any case law on home-bound teaching but I
know that traditionally they don't actually spend a lot of time directly with
the student.

SUBJECT:  IDEA Reauthorization   Date:  97-01-09 13:15:43 EST
From:  DoreenN738

Dear ALauritzen,
     Any new information of meetins on IDEA reauthorization?  According to
the ARC Homepage under Government Reports there was suppose to be meetings
between the Coalition and Rep. Riggs (the new Chairman ) on Jan. 6 &7.  Is
there any news about these meetings?  Also in related disability rights
issues I got an Action Alert From ARC Minnesota and it states:
"It looks like President Clinton's Budget Proposal for 1998--which will be
submitted very soon--is going to include a number of cuts to the Medicaid
program in the range of $30 billion dollars.  One way the Administration
proposes to make cuts is through the use of a per-capita caps (only a certain
amount of money would be allocated for the expenses of each person).  A
per-capita cap is a major problem for people with mental retardation and
related disabilities who have high Medicaid expenses because they create a
powerful incentive to underserve these people."
Any thoughts,feelings,or input on either one or both of these issues?  Any
input would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks a bunch.

SUBJECT:  Re:A Question,
Please   Date:  97-01-09 13:19:51 EST
From:  Wheels2082

If I were you, I'd adjust the IEP. The IEP tends to be set up for classroom
situations. In one conversation with a former student in my online course,
she told me that a student's IEP didn't fit the situation at home for
homeschooling.
By the way, 3-5 hours a week isn't enough to make instruction work. He's
going to be behind his peers when he enters school next year once again. They
are trying to cut corners in educating him. IF YOU'VE GOT TENURE, FIGHT FOR
MORE TIME FOR HIM OTHERWISE PRESS THE PARENTS TO FIGHT FOR MORE TIME. There
is a definite possibility of them breaking the law with too little time
homeschooling.

Dawn
Online teacher
Special Education Advocate

SUBJECT:  Re:A Question, Please   Date:  97-01-09 13:52:05 EST
From:  ALauritzen

I don't think there is a part of 94-142 that addresses homebound services for
students in special education.  But the basic rules of change of placement
and services and hours should apply.  Perhaps homebound could be considered a
related service.

Call the Parent Training Center in your state.

SUBJECT:  Re:A Question, Please   Date:  97-01-09 17:11:35 EST
From:  MPWinstead

<<That's how it's done here. The home-bound teacher doesn't spend all that
much time with the student -- leaves work instead.
What if the student can't read the work? Or spell? Or write? This kid (8th
grade) is virtually illiterate.Then what?

SUBJECT:  Re:A Question, PleaseI   Date:  97-01-09 17:15:51 EST
From:  MPWinstead

<<If I were you, I'd adjust the IEP.
We are in the process of doing just that. The original IEP was inappropriate
to begin with
<<By the way, 3-5 hours a week isn't enough to make instruction work. He's
going to be behind his peers when he enters school next year once again.
Exactly. He's ALREADY way behind. Doesn't need to lose more ground.
Thanks for your reply, Dawn.



SUBJECT:  Re:A Question, PleaseI   Date:  97-01-09 19:10:41 EST
From:  DebbieFr

I had a homebound student for all of 6th grade. She had a seizure disorder
that kept her at home.
The homebound teacher saw her 3-5 hrs. a week. I was the one who heavily
modified the work so that she was able to do as much as she could at home
with as little help as possible. There were other issues at home also and not
much of the work got done, or was done by other family members. This student
has reentered school for a half day only and only responsible for English,
Reading and Math classes. I would send very small, easy assignments that can
be done with the homebound teacher assistance at first and then send more as
the student gets into a routine of working at home. Another thing to consider
when you plan is how structured the parents are going to make the home
environment when it is "school time" at home.

SUBJECT:  Re:A Question, Please   Date:  97-01-09 21:40:31 EST
From:  Edadpg766

My understanding is that schools must provide a minimum of 5 hours a week.
If you run into a problem let me know and I can get you the info.  Office of
Civil Rights complaint but not sure off the top of my head the community.
The doctor has to order a Home Program.  Where do you live?  It is very
difficult to answer questions when AOL members don't list a profile- Even a
false name is ok but with sped. the State and Town is important.  I usually
don't respond unless I know the State/Town.

SUBJECT:  Re:A Question, Please   Date:  97-01-09 21:44:03 EST
From:  Edadpg766


Contact The Federation For Children/Boston or SPAN/Newton for Advocacy
help!!!!!

SUBJECT:  Re:A Question, Please   Date:  97-01-09 21:46:14 EST
From:  Edadpg766

Every State has their own Regulations- It would be helpful if when you ask a
question regarding Special Education you list the State where the services
are being provided or not provided!!!

SUBJECT:  Re:IDEA Reauthorization   Date:  97-01-09 21:48:21 EST
From:  Edadpg766

E-Mail the President at the "White House" on AOL your concerns!

SUBJECT:  Re:A
Question, Please   Date:  97-01-09 22:07:02 EST
From:  CAB856

In my state special ed. students on homebound receive a maximum of 4 hours
per week, usually 2 hours on 2 seperate days.

SUBJECT:  Re:A Question, Please   Date:  97-01-09 23:01:46 EST
From:  SusanS29

"<<That's how it's done here. The home-bound teacher doesn't spend all that
much time with the student -- leaves work instead.
What if the student can't read the work? Or spell? Or write? This kid (8th
grade) is virtually illiterate.Then what?"

I don't know. I'm no expert on homebound schooling. My information came from
a colleague who used to do it. The district here usually does a very good job
of abiding by the laws and rules. On the other hand, home-schooling here was
almost always used for things like kids in body casts who couldn't get to
school... not kids with behavior/learning problems.

SUBJECT:  Re:r u niz   Date:  97-01-09 23:56:55 EST
From:  Alpaca pet

As a parent that has been emotionally abused as much as her child, my advice
is this.  It is plain and simple, and I am well versed on the subject and
walk and talk the language.  Listen to the parents, without judgments,
without blame, without looking for something that's not there.  Our family is
exhausted and in due process, a place we never wanted to be.  But as many
parents, I knew more than many of the teachers on the subject of learning
disabilities and that can be very intimidating to some.  But my attempts were
honorable and professional, we certainly tried.  If a parent leaves, go get
her, somewhere she's lost the trust.

SUBJECT:  Re:r u niz   Date:  97-01-10 00:07:51 EST
From:  Alpaca pet

Let me clean up on of my sentences, so that it does not offend some teachers.
If the school district does not spend the funds to provide training for
regular education teachers, then they cannot meet the needs of the students
with learning disabilities.  Those individuals will also be unable to
understand parent requests with regard to accomodations, etc., thus, the
parent is viewed as a troublemaker.  When in fact their requests are not just
reasonable, but are required by law.  Sorry did not want to offend anyone.
We have had wonderful teachers who are very nice people, but unable to help
our child.  Who suffers--we all do!

SUBJECT:  Re:A Question, Please    Date:  97-01-10 08:21:59 EST
From:  MPWinstead

>> The district here usually does a very good job of abiding by the laws and
rules. On the other hand, home-schooling here was almost always used for
things like kids in body casts who couldn't get to school... not kids with
behavior/learning problems.
Susan- I think our district does too. And home-schooling here is also used
usually on a short term basis for physical or emotional difficulties. This is
a very special case though because the reason this child is having to be home
schooled in the first place is because he had a full-fledged breakdown due
SOLELY to stress related to school.His doctors have said he must be
home-schooled for the rest of the year to remove him from a situation he can
no longer handle. He is definately NOT a behavior problem. He's been in
self-contained LD since 1st grade and, in the 8th, is still reading on a 1st
grade level.

Thanks to you and all others who so kindly took time to answer my post. I
really appreciate your input!!

SUBJECT:  Re:r u niz   Date:  97-01-10 10:39:53 EST
From:  SusanS29

"If the school district does not spend the funds to provide training for
regular education teachers, then they cannot meet the needs of the students
with learning disabilities.  Those individuals will also be unable to
understand parent requests with regard to accomodations, etc., thus, the
parent is viewed as a troublemaker.  "

This is so true, and one of the "hidden costs" of skimping on a district's
special education program.

Where I taught, we had full-time resource teachers in virtually every school.
Big elementary schools had two and sometimes three. The support for the
classroom teacher was always there. We always had enough time to talk with
the teachers, explain what was going on with the child, why certain
approaches were likely to work well while others might well blow up in their
faces, etc.

By and large the teachers were pretty sophisticated about LD because the
staff was there to help them.

SUBJECT:  Re:A Question, Please    Date:  97-01-10 10:42:01 EST
From:  SusanS29

"Susan- I think our district does too. And home-schooling here is also used
usually on a short term basis for physical or emotional difficulties. This is
a very special case though because the reason this child is having to be home
schooled in the first place is because he had a full-fledged breakdown due
SOLELY to stress related to school."

I thought about this ... what about a private school setting? Would that
work? A change in placement? If the school has caused such level of stress
(ignored needed interventions such as work load reduction, etc.) they might
be liable for tuition.

Maybe home-school isn't the best solution or the only one? Might be the only
one the doctor thought of -- he might not be aware of rulings that sometimes
school districts are liable for the tuition.

Of course the parent might have to pay first and then fight for payment, and
the majority of people probably couldn't afford that. Just a thought.

SUBJECT:
Re:A Question, Please    Date:  97-01-10 10:42:48 EST
From:  SusanS29

"He is definately NOT a behavior problem. He's been in self-contained LD
since 1st grade and, in the 8th, is still reading on a 1st grade level."

PS -- does this child have normal or near-normal intelligence? How long has
he received special education? (Maybe you know where I'm headed with
this...)

SUBJECT:  Re:A Question, Please    Date:  97-01-10 11:15:44 EST
From:  MPWinstead

>I thought about this ... what about a private school setting? ...  If the
school has caused such level of stress (ignored needed interventions such as
work load reduction, etc.) they might be liable for tuition.
Yes, a private school would work. And we are very fortunate to have one here
(very expensive) that would be appropriate. But his doctors are very aware of
all options. Their professional opinion is that he cannot be in ANY formal
school enviornment for the rest of this year. So home schooling is it for
now.



SUBJECT:  Re:A Question, Please    Date:  97-01-10 11:16:50 EST
From:  MPWinstead

PS -- does this child have normal or near-normal intelligence?
Sure does.
< How long has he received special education?
8 years
<(Maybe you know where I'm headed with this...)
Sure do :)

SUBJECT:  Re:A Question, Please    Date:  97-01-10 12:34:12 EST
From:  SusanS29

Since he has good potential and simply hasn't progressed with their
intervention, they have created this problem by not being diligent and
aggressively pursuing more effective teaching methods.

They are liable for a whole lot more than a little home-schooling. The
question is whether this idea can be planted in the parents' mind without
anyone getting "canned," and whether they have the heart to pursue it.

SUBJECT:
Re:A Question, Please    Date:  97-01-10 15:31:01 EST
From:  MPWinstead

>>They are liable for a whole lot more than a little home-schooling. The
question is whether this idea can be planted in the parents' mind without
anyone getting "canned," and whether they have the heart to pursue it.

Susan,
The idea has been planted and they have heart :-)

SUBJECT:  Re:A Question, Please
   Date:  97-01-11 00:59:07 EST
From:  SusanS29

"The idea has been planted and they have heart :-)"

That, my friend, is the best news I've had all day.  :)

SUBJECT:  Re:A Question,
Please    Date:  97-01-11 15:36:04 EST
From:  MPWinstead

Susan-
thanks! I'll keep you posted!

SUBJECT:  IDEA Improvement Act of 1997   Date:  97-01-11 15:42:45 EST
From:  ALauritzen

You can find the full text of HR 5 at the following website:

http://www.house.gov/eeo/ideainfo.htm



SUBJECT:  Friday News #25 Part 1 NPND   Date:  97-01-11 16:49:36 EST
From:  ALauritzen

January 10, 1997                             Number 25
-------------------
IDEA Introduced in the House

NPND has been informed by the House Committee on Economic & Educational
Opportunities, that  their IDEA bill (HR 5) was introduced on January 8.
Regrettably, they were not silent on the issue of cessation - it is in the
bill. Information on the bill is available on the committee's website:
www.house.gov/eeo. Chairman Goodling and Representative Riggs have asked for
input regarding the bill, as well as possible speakers for 2 hearings in
February. Contact Chairman Goodling at US. House of Representatives,
Washington, DC  20515 with your opinions, or to find out about speaking in
the hearings.
--------------------------
January 8, 1997

Dear CCD Co-Chairs:

We realize that you have received informal feedback from certain senior staff
members of the Committee on Education and the Workforce (formerly the
Committee on Economic and Educational Opportunities), but we wanted to
express officially our dismay at the tone and timing of your letter dated
December 20, 1996. You  write that the primary purpose of your involvement in
the authorization of the federal special education law (IDEA) was to "keep
the legislative process moving." That appears very disingenuous on your part
given the  fact that you now disavow the compromise bill that passed the
House on the Suspension calendar with finite debate and no opposition.

Our intent was, and is, to develop a bill that enjoys broad support
politically within the Congress and from educators, parents and the
disability community. We did not ask you to keep the process moving. We asked
you to help get all interested parties into one room, and then, working with
our staff, to come up with an  acceptable proposal to modify and update the
IDEA which would reflect a compromise between the professional education
organizations and the groups you represent. We ultimately approved 85 percent
of your recommendations. However, we emphatically stated when we finished the
Committee markup that you not insist on getting the remaining 15 percent of
your recommendations adopted in the Senate, as that would endanger the
delicate compromise that had been agreed upon.

The tone of your letter indicates that you prefer current law. You reject the
spirit of good faith compromise between all stakeholder groups involved with
special education that is essential to moving this legislation. However, the
status quo is unacceptable. We are committed to moving forward and
subsequently have introduced the legislation (H.R. 5) exactly as it
unanimously passed the House of Representatives last year. We will proceed,
as planned, with the hearings at the Subcommittee and markup in the Full
Committee on a timely basis and, once again, attempt to reach a consensus
with all, and we repeat, all of the groups affected by our legislation.

Sincerely yours,
s: Bill Goodling                Frank Riggs
Chairman                                    Chairman
Committee on Economic            Subcommittee on Early Childhood,
and Educational Opportunities                           Youth and Families
----------------------------------

Not Dead Yet Rally a Success

Five to six-hundred people gathered on the steps of the Supreme Court
Wednesday morning, January 8 to protest arguments being heard by the Court to
decide the constitutionality of the right to doctor-assisted suicide. The
group was extremely successful in attracting media attention in this
important test of the Constitution regarding the rights of people. Speakers
included former Surgeon General Koop and Nancy Ward, who represented People
Empowered to Speak for Themselves. (CONTINUED IN PART 2 OF FRIDAY NEWS
#25)

SUBJECT:  Friday News #25 Part 2 -NPND   Date:  97-01-11 16:50:18 EST
From:  ALauritzen

These, along with many other speakers eloquently stated the problem with
doctor-assisted suicide. According to Not Dead Yet, "People with disabilities
will be the victims of physician-assisted suicide. Studies show that doctors
and  others underestimate the quality of our lives. These same doctors will
have to decide whether a suicidal patient will receive suicide prevention
services or suicide assistance services. Too many will decide based on fear
and ignorance. Experiences in the Netherlands have shown that even with
safeguards, people are killed involuntarily. "
------------------------------

CEC Parent Leaders Meet

Under the leadership of the Council for Exceptional Children (CEC), parent
leaders met on  Monday, January 6, 1997 to develop a campaign for the
reauthorization of IDEA. the group decided on three basic premises on which
to base the campaign: (1) Keep it Simple; (2) Involve citizens within the
states to the maximum extent possible; and (3) All must put aside personal
grievances and concentrate on the overriding issues that affect millions of
children and families.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NPND * 1727 King Street, Suite 305 * Alexandria, VA  22314
[phone] (V/TDD) * [phone] (fax) * [e-mail] * www.npnd.org






SUBJECT:  Re:Friday News #25 Part 1 NP   Date:  97-01-11 23:07:23 EST
From:  Wheels2082

Already doing my part. Been e-mailing Senators and already have my name on
the list. Waiting the call back for February.

Dawn
Online teacher
Special Education Advocate

SUBJECT:  Re:I am stunned!   Date:  97-01-11 23:43:49 EST
From:  DONORALOU

In my district the funds for the gifted were cut to cover the costs of
Special Education.

SUBJECT:  Re:work together   Date:  97-01-11 23:49:31 EST
From:  DONORALOU

I second everything you have said. Additionally, more education of the
general student population needs to be undertaken so that junior and senior
high school students understand how special ed youngsters are graded. I have
an inclusion class. On days that my special ed students are at work, my
regular ed students ask questions about their various conditions.
In our school district the special ed parents denied
the use of a puppet program because they want their kids to be seen as
"normal" not disabled. This is goofy.

SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  97-01-12 11:03:23 EST
From:  Ratatat

<< And we have bozo courts who side with the psychopaths>>

Laren, with all due respect, statements such as this weaken any points you
are trying to make.  I understand the foundations for your position, but when
I read comments such as these I react emotionally and negatively.  IMHO, a
more moderate proposal of one's opinion usually reaps more cooperative
listening.

SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  97-01-12 11:05:52 EST
From:  Ratatat

<<It is my opinion that we must stop discussing the reasons why the child
cannot be served and
concentrate on serving the child.  Let's stop wasting time by arguing about
things that are our
responsibilities anyway.>>

The amount energy I have seen schools put into opposing the needs of students
rather than serving them is amazing.  If that same enormous energy was
applied proactively and creatively I think we would all be dazzled by the
results.

SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  97-01-12 11:17:37 EST
From:  Ratatat

<<Why oh why make the public schools responsible for your child?  You are
responsible for your child!  Not the government or our taxes. YOU!!  I am
responsible for my child, and I am responsible for educating him also.  If he
isn't doing well, I hire a tutor.  If he needs OT I would pay for it.  Why do
you think the public schools owe you?>>

According to the United States Congress the public schools are responsible
for educating our students - and we pay for it mightily - through local,
state and federal taxes.

When a disability is effecting a child's ability to learn, the Congress says
that the schools must provide support services.  When a learning disability
is effective a child's ability to learn, Congress says that the schools must
provide appropriate educational interventions.

I agree that *I* am responsible for my child - but since the Congress says
that has my child's life-long advocate it is my responsibility to make sure
that my child receives the very services Congress says the schools must
provide, I will do so - and enourage all parents to do so.

I happen to know of a situation where a school thought a child needed *more*
services that the parent did and called in Child Proective Serives to *seize*
this child in order to force the family to make sure this child recieved what
they, the school system, thought was appropriate.  This parent literally went
into hiding - "underground" if you will - for about a year to maintain
custody of their child while pursue legal protections.  Guess what?  The
family prevailed and the government awarded monetary damages to them from the
school.

So, okay - the system is out of wack - but I say isn't out of wack because is
is mis-interpreted, mis-understood and teachers are not provided with the
support and education about how to serve special needs kids in their schools.
The parents pay the price, the kids pay the price and the teachers pay the
price.

Bashing and trying to cajol people with personal assaults is not going to win
any advocates for your point of view.  On the contrary, it makes me want to
make sure that totally oppositional teachers leave the profession and go find
something to do that makes them happy and does have the chance of impacting
my child in a negative way.

SUBJECT:  Re:Reply to Wheels2082   Date:  97-01-12 11:42:28 EST
From:  Ratatat

<<Demands of parents is above and beyond, hence my belief IDEA and 504 need
some vital revamping to five services to ALL children, not just special
needs.>>

The key word here is NEEDS.  What does the child NEED?  If a child has a NEED
because of a disability then that NEED must be provided for.

Regular education students have different NEEDS which must be met too.  It's
not about what someone "wants", its about what someone NEEDS to have access
to the education a school offers so that each student has equal access.

SUBJECT:
Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  97-01-12 11:46:10 EST
From:  Ratatat

<<
Let's have a reality check........Is this country not already trillions of
dollars in debt? >.

The debt is mostly generated from trade deficits, defense spending and aid to
other countries, and loans to developing countries that can't repay.

We need to priortize the spending and send more of it to education - there is
plenty of money, just poorly spent, IMHO.

BTW, I've seen children with great potential suffer hard because some pretty
easy and basic accommodations were denied to them.

SUBJECT:  So is Reed Martin
(1)   Date:  97-01-12 11:55:23 EST
From:  Ratatat

You are not the only one.  I found the following letter in the PERC web site
from Reed Martin.  He is the lawyer for the Taltos family which ended up
appealing and prevailing at the Supreme Court Level:
Teachers and the Law
by Reed Martin
Newsbriefs, May-June 96
To afford access to equal protection under the law, as required by the
Fourteenth Amendment to
the Constitution, children with disabilities require educational
modifications. And, to assure that
those modifications are not unduly restrictive, in violation of the due
process clause of the
Fourteenth Amendment, a written plan must be developed which is based on the
unique needs of
that one child with a disability and which will direct the classroom teacher
and other school
personnel in dealing with that child for the coming year.
The IEP meeting is the heart of the special education laws. It is an analysis
of what is going right in
a child's education and what is going wrong. It is the blueprint for next
year's program. The
teacher is vital to the development of the IEP, in speaking up about how the
program went this
year, what is needed for changes next year, and what problems might be
foreseen for the next
teacher.
Laws, such as Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 and the Education
of All
Handicapped Children Act (PL 94-142), now the Individuals with Disabilities
Education Act
(IDEA) were passed by Congress more than 20 years ago specifically to make
teachers and
school districts aware that they were discriminating against students with
disabilities and that such
discrimination hurts. The laws were passed to order school districts and
teachers to change.
Twenty years later we are facing much of the same discrimination and
intolerance from school
officials and teachers when it comes to ending discrimination because they
often refuse to change.
I always have to point out to teachers that IEP meetings are not a paperwork
burden, which is the
usual teacher union and administrator position, but are the judicially and
congressionally required
method to end discrimination against students with disabilities.
It must be upsetting when I remind people that we are completing the 19th
school year requiring
full compliance with Section 504 and the 19th year requiring full compliance
with the Individuals
with Disabilities Act. When school districts accepted funds under IDEA they
had to promise to
comply with it and with Section 504 and promise to train regular classroom
teachers and
administrators in the provisions of IDEA.
Apparently, very often in talks, I must explain in too great detail what the
law requires of teachers
who deal with students with disabilities. Teachers seem to get upset when it
becomes clear in such
presentations that teachers generally do not know what the law requires,
teachers learn their
school is probably far out of compliance with the law, and they do not like
the law because they
don't understand it and would prefer to ignore it.
After a recent speech, a good friend said, "I'm concerned that you really
upset some of our
teachers." However, the usual complaint that I get is from parents, who
report that too many
teachers are upsetting our children with disabilities - refusing to comply
with the IEP and making
students with disabilities the subject of repeated disciplinary sanctions.

continued .....

SUBJECT:  So is Reed Martin (2)   Date:  97-01-12 11:56:33 EST
From:  Ratatat

So what did I sat that leads people to accuse me of upsetting some teachers?
In a discussion
with Dr. Ed Martin who was head of the Bureau of Education for the
Handicapped (now called
Office of Special Education Programs) at the time the Education for All
Handicapped Children
Act was passed into law, we talked about those early days and Appendix C to
the federal
regulations. Ed knew that implementation of the law would require simple
straightforward
guidance toward compliance. He created Appendix C, and asked me among others
to help with
practical questions and answers about the IEP process. Appendix C is sixty
questions and
answers about the IEP process. Appendix C is as much a part of the law as any
of the regulations
that it explains and has been quoted as the law by courts in all of the
federal circuits.
To date, I haven't met a teacher that has read Appendix C even though
Appendix C tells teachers
exactly what is expected of them at the IEP meeting. I am sure that there are
a lot of good IEPs
out there, but what I hear when I listen to tapes of IEP meetings are two
voices: the parent's and
the administrator's. If there are a teacher's comments on the tape, too often
they are supporting
the school district on some policy and explaining to the parents why their
request cannot be
accommodated.
Every school district has a booklet that urges the parents to get involved in
their child's education.
Many surveys blame the decline in education on parents not being involved.
Yet when a parent
makes a request to see their child's records as a first step in getting
involved, the request may be
denied or the acquisition made difficult.
Letters from administrators and even school board members are produced, which
criticize the
parents for making such a request. Many parents who contact me fear
retaliation if they ask to see
their child's records.
But most disputes arise because teachers will not share their notes about a
child with the parents.
In a current (but not the only) case the teacher comes to the IEP meeting,
reads from a folder of
notes, then refuses to allow the parent to see them. The teacher always
insists they are private
notes and that the teacher's right to privacy supersedes the parents' rights
that are spelled out in
the 1974 Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act and IDEA. Teachers are
unhappy to learn
for the first time what the law has been for over 20 years and that they can
not choose to play by
different rules.
Continual problems also arise when students with disabilities are in regular
ed where the teacher
believes in the status quo: the teacher runs the classroom and the student
must conform or suffer.
Inclusion sets up this controversy wherever there is a failure of educational
leadership to develop
appropriate program modifications and acquaint regular classroom teachers
with the
requirements of the law. The basic fact is that the child with a disability
has a right to be in the
class and the teacher has to make reasonable accommodations.
As we require the teacher to modify the classroom to meet students' needs, we
may shift our
suspicion for the reason for failure in the classroom from the student, who
doesn't try hard
enough to the teacher, who isn't able to reach the student. That concept is
difficult for many
teachers. At the IEP meeting, the competency of the teacher to handle a
particular student may
well be on the table. The teacher might be directed to learn a different
methodology or employ a
different behavior management approach.

continued ....

SUBJECT:  So is Reed Martin (3)   Date:  97-01-12 11:56:51 EST
From:  Ratatat

I have been in several cases where a teacher who won last year's Teacher of
the Year Award in
that state, and who is wonderful for gifted students, has shown an inability
to teach a student with
learning disabilities. When the law is explained to such a teacher, it must
be upsetting. Many
teachers who do not understand the IEP process complain about it taking too
much time.
Many teachers, who never speak up at the IEP, will follow me into the parking
lot and say "I
hope you pursue this because our program is hurting your child." When I ask,
naively, "Aren't you
the teacher who a few minutes ago was sitting in the meeting that was called
to discuss that very
problem?", the teacher will say "Oh, but I couldn't say anything in front of
the administrator." The
law requires the teacher to speak up. It must surprise teachers and
administrators who are
complaining about lawbreaking in the schools when I say the biggest
lawbreakers in the schools
are not the students.
I guess I will continue to upset teachers and administrators when I force
them to realize how far
they are out of compliance with the law. Noncompliance is discrimination and
discrimination hurts
children. I personally do not think people who hurt children belong in the
classroom. And I am
sorry if that upsets anyone.
____________________
Reed Martin is an attorney with Martin and Bishop, Attorneys at Law, Houston,
Texas.


SUBJECT:  Re:ALauritzen   Date:  97-01-12 12:00:52 EST
From:  Ratatat

<<I have taught for 20 years and kids in my LH class are now considered SH
while kids that used to be served in my classroom are sitting once again in
regular classes>.

What do you mean by LH?  Each state has it's own alphabet soup, and I'm not
sure what you mean by this?

SUBJECT:  Re:So is Reed Martin (3)   Date:  97-01-12 12:10:52 EST
From:  DebbieFr

Ratatat,

  Thank you so very much for posting Reed Matin's comments. I found personal
validation of why I keep fighting an ongoing battle at my school and I have
been tempted to give up, but I will continue to fight " because
discrimination hurts children"

SUBJECT:  Re:I am stunned!   Date:  97-01-12 12:33:59 EST
From:  SusanS29

"In my district the funds for the gifted were cut to cover the costs of
Special Education. "

Which has to set parent against parent.

I don't see how the Federal Government can dictate programs but not fund
them. But then, if our taxes went up there would be such a holler!

I want it all. I want good Gifted Education, and I want good Special
Education.

GASP -- I'm willing to pay for it, too.

SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  97-01-12 12:34:52 EST
From:  SusanS29

"The amount energy I have seen schools put into opposing the needs of
students rather than serving them is amazing.  If that same enormous energy
was applied proactively and creatively I think we would all be dazzled by the
results."

Amen.

SUBJECT:  Re:Reply to Wheels2082   Date:  97-01-12 12:37:41 EST
From:  SusanS29

"<<Demands of parents is above and beyond, hence my belief IDEA and 504 need
some vital revamping to five services to ALL children, not just special
needs.>>

The key word here is NEEDS.  What does the child NEED?  If a child has a NEED
because of a disability then that NEED must be provided for.

Regular education students have different NEEDS which must be met too.  It's
not about what someone "wants", its about what someone NEEDS to have access
to the education a school offers so that each student has equal access."

I have to agree with that. The truth is that for those students who have no
special needs, our educational system already works very well. Any changes
for that population should be global. If the curriculum is inadequate for one
child with no special needs, it's inadequate for *all* of the students with
no special needs. (For instance, if they teach written expression with
workbooks they shouldn't be surprised when their kids can't write. That
wouldn't require an IEP-type approach for each student. It would require an
improved curriculum.)

SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  97-01-12 12:39:02 EST
From:  SusanS29

"BTW, I've seen children with great potential suffer hard because some pretty
easy and basic accommodations were denied to them."

Yes. I've seen teachers refuse to do the *simplest* of accommodations --
things that cost the school no money and cost the teacher *no* time -- "on
principle." It's just plain mean-spirited not to be willing to try
*anything.*

SUBJECT:  Re:ALauritzen   Date:  97-01-12 13:33:32 EST
From:  ALauritzen

Thank you RATATAT for all of your imput!!!!!

SUBJECT:  Re:work together   Date:  97-01-12 14:28:53 EST
From:  RhoLaren

If special ed students want adjusted grades, no problem. BUT, when they apply
for college, or trade school, or jobs, their transcripts MUST reflect that
the grades were adjusted. As it stands now, the employer cannot ask these
questions, and the school cannot send out this information. The situation is
grossly unfair, and might explain why many regular education teachers do not
like the idea of adjusting grades or making accomodations. It makes me look
like I have no standards when I give a very good grade to a child who is
clearly working behind grade level when there is no mention of the fact on
the transcript. You cannot have it both ways.

SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  97-01-12 14:29:48 EST
From:  RhoLaren

I stand by the concept of bozo. So, you will disagree. That is your right.
The courts have made some very bad decisions. Bozo is not the only word.  It
is the only one AOL will allow.

SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  97-01-12 14:35:53 EST
From:  RhoLaren

Ratatat,

You are a great person and advocate. I respect you greatly. I am interested
in the comment that you made in a post. <<Bashing and trying to cajol people
with personal assaults is not going to win any advocates for your point of
view.  On the contrary, it makes me want to make sure that totally
oppositional teachers leave the profession and go find something to do that
makes them happy and does have the chance of impacting my child in a negative
way.>> I have found that many of us have been bashed for DARING to say
anything indicates that all is not well with the way students are being
placed, etc. We are accused of "not loving children" and worse if we dare
disagree. (That comment about loving children came from one of the original
posts I read a year ago on one of these boards). What a non-sequitor. We have
been polite for a very long time, and have NEVER been listened to. Maybe we
are fed up. I appreciate your concerns, and have learned much from you, but I
am appalled at some of the things that occur. And, after twenty years, am
not afraid to mention them.  There are inequalities in the law. There is the
concept of "all students are equal, but some are more equal than
others."

SUBJECT:  Re:So is Reed Martin (3)   Date:  97-01-12 14:43:43 EST
From:  RhoLaren

Right, I am going to go against my bosses. The ones who evaluate me, the ones
who can give me a bad class and a worse schedule. Also, I probably do not
know the law, so I really have no reason to assume the administrator is in
error. Also, I LOVE the concept of the recalcitrant regular ed teacher
REFUSING to to learn how to accomodate. Read my lips. Maybe I cannot
accomodate without more aides, more supplies, etc. I do not hear anyone
agitating for that, only complaining when the regular ed teacher is refusing
to do what she knows she cannot do. As for the regular ed teacher and
complaining about paperwork. The regular ed teacher has NEVER been a mandated
part of the process of IDEA from the beginning. Every time I bring up that
during the latest reauthorization, maybe it is time to make the regular
education teacher an integral part, I get side tracking and waffling and
people bringing up what is done in their school system. Make me an integral
part, or do not complain if I do not want to be a part.


SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA Rho   Date:  97-01-12 16:11:36 EST
From:  Mittar

Well put, Rho.  Politely said and thought provoking!  I admire your taking a
stand.  Politically correct commentary has resulted in negative commentary
for those who DARE to challenge!
A law intended to help, has done an injustice for many of those who it was
intended to help . It also hurt many who really wanted to make a
difference...teachers.  The level of accountability vs the level of education
being done in the class makes what I set out to do ...TEACH....difficult if
not impossible to do! I am a Special Ed. teacher who wants to teach!

SUBJECT:
Re:Reply to Wheels2082   Date:  97-01-12 17:18:13 EST
From:  TLVAIL

 have to agree with that. The truth is that for those students who have no
special needs, our educational system already works very well. Any changes
for that population should be global. If the curriculum is "inadequate for
one child with no special needs, it's inadequate for *all* of the students
with no special needs. (For instance, if they teach written expression with
workbooks they shouldn't be surprised when their kids can't write. That
wouldn't require an IEP-type approach for each student. It would require an
improved curriculum.)"-  Susan- I don't know that I agree with this
statement.  Just because a child doesn't qualify for special education
services doesn't necessarily mean that they don't hav especial needs.  All
children have different learning styles and different strengths and
weaknesses.  Sometimes a kids will "get lucky" and get a teacher whose
teaching style matches their needs. Sometimes they get even more lucky and
get a teacher that looks for the different learning styles of his/her
students and attempts to address all of them.  Sometimes the kid is unlucky
and only teaches one way- one which is in opposition to the child's learning
style.  No on curriculum or method of instruction is going to work with all
children- "normal" or "not".

SUBJECT:  Re:Reply to Wheels2082   Date:  97-01-12 18:47:41 EST
From:  R u Niz

Good teachers use a variety of methods to teach groups of children.  Good
teachers do not use lecture only--thus reaching only those students who learn
best through auditory channels.  Good teachers do not only teach note
taking--for those students who must write to remember.  Good teachers do not
only provide the visual stimuli of charts and graphs for visual learners.
Good teachers teach to as many learning styles as they can.  And I have not
just been describing Sp-Ed teachers.  Most of the good teachers I work with
do as much of this as they can.  They come to me for more ideas when the
methods they've employed do not reach some of the more challenged learners.
Often, I find that the only thing they haven't done is the
reteach--reteach--reteach in small group size, which they can't do because
they have 35 young faces in front of them 6 periods a day.  I 'm a special ed
teacher, but I can feel some of Rho's frustration.

What kind of special ed support are your students receiving?

With regard to report card grades, we are required to place an asterisk next
to every grade that represents a class in which instruction has been modified
for a special ed student.  If I am teaching a student Math and the student
has earned a "B" from me, there will be an asterisk next to the name of the
subject.  If the student attends Science without special ed support, but the
teacher has modified some of her expectations (reduced homework load, etc)
she will place an asterisk next to the subject.  If the same student attends
Social Studies with no support or modifications--there is no asterisk.  At
the bottom of the report card we place an asterisk with the explanation:
Modified Instruction.  This allows our students with special needs to earn
Honor Roll recognition for outstanding work measured by our expectations for
them--not by achievements measured against children with no disabilities.  It
evens the playing field.  I don't feel these grades are misleading.  We are
honest about the modifications.  If we didn't do this, many of the students
would work their butts off and never be recognized as anything but low C
students.  My own kids earned "C" grades in their sleep.

By the way, when any of my students earn a "C" in an unmodified class I heap
on the praise.

SUBJECT:  Re:Reply to Wheels2082   Date:  97-01-12 20:42:50 EST
From:  Wheels2082

Becky, I agree with you that the public school system has to meet all
students' needs. All I care about is that each child reaches full potential.

Dawn
Online Teacher
Special Education Advocate

SUBJECT:  Appendix C   Date:  97-01-12 22:37:32 EST
From:  Ratatat

To anyone here who is interested in what Appendix C says (referred to by Reed
Martin in the letter I posted by him), you can find a full text of it in the
Special Education Library available for downloading.

SUBJECT:  Re:work together   Date:  97-01-13 00:59:57 EST
From:  SusanS29

"The situation is grossly unfair, and might explain why many regular
education teachers do not like the idea of adjusting grades or making
accomodations."

There's a *huge* difference between making accommodations and "adjusting
grades."

Grades should *not* be "adjusted" for students who will be going on to
college. *Accommodations* should be made to allow them to master the work as
well as other students -- even if they, say, take tests differently (using a
computer if they're dysgraphic comes to mind immediately).

Grades don't have to mean that every person in the class learned the material
(and demonstrated mastery) in exactly the same way, but they should reflect
the same level of mastery.

SUBJECT:  Re:Reply to Wheels2082   Date:  97-01-13 01:11:25 EST
From:  SusanS29

"All children have different learning styles and different strengths and
weaknesses.  "

Absolutely. But the difference between that student and one with learning
disabilities is that this student may have weaknesses, but they do not
prevent the student from progressing. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses,
but the student without learning differences has always been able to progress
through school without special accommodations just because he or she is human
and therefore slightly stronger in some areas than others.

The students with learning differences, however, have always struggled. For
the truly learning disabled student, just having a teacher "teach to his or
her strengths" won't be enough to fill the gaps.

I stand by what I said. Some curriculum practices truly stink. Writing
spelling words over and over is proven to *not* improve spelling. Teaching
written expression from a workbook? Terrible. Those "techniques" however
don't prevent the non-LD student from learning; they learn *in spite of poor
curriculum. For the LD student those approaches are giant walls across the
road to learning. There is a true differnce between the student with a
learning disability and the student who has no LD but is human and does have
minor strengths and weaknesses.

"No on curriculum or method of instruction is going to work with all
children- "normal" or "not"."

Sure it can. We've done it for years with basal readers and arithmetic books.
I helped evaluate children for possible learning disabilities for 20 years.
The ones that don't have a learning disability or ADD getting in their way
learned no matter what basal readers, math programs, etc. were chosen. They
had more *fun* when teachers made an effort to address many learning styles.
They all loved hands-on approaches, but it wasn't *necessary* to teach them.

Don't get me wrong. I'm enthusiastically in favor of approaches such as
"multiple intelligences, and I think all children, no matter how bright, are
innately concrete learners, and that our classrooms need much more in the way
of hands-on activities.

I don't think that will change how much they learn so much as how much they
*enjoy* learning. We've graduated a whole generation of students who *can*
read -- but don't like to. I think that's an awful outcome.

SUBJECT:  Re:Reply to
Wheels2082   Date:  97-01-13 01:13:04 EST
From:  SusanS29

" If the same student attends Social Studies with no support or
modifications--there is no asterisk."

I don't think there should be any asterisk unless the *mastery* expectations
have been lowered. Otherwise -- you reduce a child's work load because he or
she is dysgraphic -- they can't help that; they have a devil of a time
writing. If they still learned the material there should be no asterisk. I
hope your school will re-think that.


SUBJECT:  Re:Reply to Wheels2082   Date:  97-01-13 06:50:26 EST
From:  Ratatat

<<The ones that don't have a learning disability or ADD getting in their way
learned no matter what basal readers, math programs, etc. were chosen. They
had more *fun* when teachers made an effort to address many learning styles.
They all loved hands-on approaches, but it wasn't *necessary* to teach
them.>>

Ah.  You've hit the nail on the head with this statement.  Thanks, Susan.



SUBJECT:  Re:Reply to Wheels2082   Date:  97-01-13 19:15:45 EST
From:  TLVAIL

I don't think it's just a matter of having fun learning.  Many children may
not "make the cut-off" of the legal definition of learning disabled but may
have some pretty severe processing deficits that make it difficult to learn
given a specific curriculum or teaching method.

SUBJECT:  Re:Reply to
Wheels2082   Date:  97-01-14 00:16:31 EST
From:  SusanS29

" Many children may not "make the cut-off" of the legal definition of
learning disabled but may have some pretty severe processing deficits that
make it difficult to learn given a specific curriculum or teaching method.  "

I can only base my comments on where I live. But where I live, the *criteria*
for LD service is that the differences *do* make a difference in how well the
children learn. So where I live, an IEP approach to non-handicapped children
simply isn't necessary.

In other states their methods of determining who is LD are a little more
shaky in my opinion. But when reasonable diagnostic standards are applied,
the differences are pretty clear.

Where I am, there simply aren't "lots of kids" as you describe.

SUBJECT:
Re:Reply to Wheels2082   Date:  97-01-14 13:47:22 EST
From:  RhoLaren

Susan,

I envy where you live. Ohio has just changed its way of determining the
criteria for LD, etc, so it is hard to comment. But from what I gather, the
approach is so thorough, and the teacher has to document all the
interventions used prior to referral, etc, that I do think there are many not
served. Under the old system, there was the 2 standard deviation between IQ
and performance. Yes, there were many who " just" missed the cutoff.

SUBJECT:
Re:Reply to Wheels2082   Date:  97-01-14 17:12:27 EST
From:  SusanS29

"But from what I gather, the approach is so thorough, and the teacher has to
document all the interventions used prior to referral, etc, that I do think
there are many not served. "

That's true nationwide. Prior to making the final referral, the school is
supposed to specifically try some new things with the child, and document
them. It's been that way for years, and protects both the child and the
taxpayers.

It protects the child from undergoing useless scrutiny and the taxpayers from
paying for unnecessary evaluations, if all the child needed was slight
adjustments in teaching, environment, etc.

It didn't prevent any kids with real needs from getting services where I am.

"Under the old system, there was the 2 standard deviation between IQ and
performance. Yes, there were many who " just" missed the cutoff."

Requiring such an extreme discrepancy will do a couple of things. It will
deny services to kids who are truly learning disabled, and it will hold costs
down.

By the time a child is two standard deviations from potential that child is
so *terribly* behind that it would be extremely hard for him or her to ever
get caught up. Educationally this policy is a death sentence.

I challenge anyone from Ohio (if these standards are still the ones used) who
can show me LD students who are working on grade level by high school.

It happens all the time where we are, but we intervene sooner.

Maybe if the state of Ohio had to write IEPs for every student anyway they
would establish more realistic diagnositic standards.

SUBJECT:  Re:A Question,
Please   Date:  97-01-14 19:47:21 EST
From:  SpedAdvoRN

This is to respond to a state that only gives home tutoring for 4 hours a
week, 2 hours each time.

Office for Civil Rights (OCR), Region 1, New England area.  OCR settled a
civil rights complaint against Boston Public Schools which limited hospital
tutoring for sick inpatients at Children's Hospital to a pre-determined
amount per week (around $50.00/wk).  Boston agreed to provide home/hospital
services based upon INDIVIDUAL NEEDS.  Also, agreed to provide educational
services DURING THE SCHOOL DAY.



SUBJECT:  Re:A Question, Please   Date:  97-01-15 08:34:42 EST
From:  MPWinstead

>>>Office for Civil Rights (OCR), Region 1, New England area.  OCR settled a
civil rights complaint against Boston Public Schools....  Boston agreed to
provide home/hospital services based upon INDIVIDUAL NEEDS.  Also, agreed to
provide educational services DURING THE SCHOOL DAY.
Thanks for adding this information!
MOST interesting. Was this recently? And who decides the "individual needs?"





SUBJECT:  Re:Reply to Wheels2082   Date:  97-01-15 09:29:41 EST
From:  RhoLaren

Susan,

I really cannot disagree with you. That is why Ohio had to change its way of
assessing children.

SUBJECT:  Re:Reply to Wheels2082   Date:  97-01-15 09:33:34 EST
From:  RhoLaren

I just remembered this. For a long time, we were told that children with IQs
under 90 (or so, I forget the exact number) who had LD problems were not
eligible for the LD program. Of course the regular teachers questioned that.
Actually we screamed about it. We were told the law said that these children
were not eligible.  (Were we told the truth, I do not know). So, let's see,
the regular education teacher, with the least training in this area, and the
most students, was left with the children who were the hardest to deal with.
Now, this was many years ago. SO, many of us had disdain for the law, knew
that we had no hand in designing it (or we would not have stood for that
provision).

SUBJECT:  Re:Reply to Wheels2082   Date:  97-01-15 11:46:33 EST
From:  DoreenN738

Just so you know RhoLaren,you were not told the truth.  Of course the child
would of qualified under IDEA under one of the 12 criteria,the one applicable
to the case you referred to is mental retardation.  So once again you are
complaining about the district being in non-compliance with the law not the
law itself.

SUBJECT:  Re:Reply to Wheels2082   Date:  97-01-15 13:05:29 EST
From:  SusanS29

"I just remembered this. For a long time, we were told that children with IQs
under 90 (or so, I forget the exact number) who had LD problems were not
eligible for the LD program. Of course the regular teachers questioned that.
Actually we screamed about it. We were told the law said that these children
were not eligible.  (Were we told the truth, I do not know). "

Depends on how the state defines LD.

SUBJECT:  Re:Reply to Wheels2082   Date:  97-01-16 12:15:58 EST
From:  R u Niz

Actually, the way the law is interpreted in Illinois, the individual being
evaluated must have average or near average intelligence (here that is
defined as an IQ of 85-->) and show a discrepancy between expectancy and
achievement.  Expectancy must be determined by the school psychologist.
Individuals who score 69 or below on IQ testing are what used to be called
retarded--now the term here is cognitive disability.  Individuals who have
IQ's between 70-80 generally are identified as slow learners.

Our psychologists have been trying to identify the "slow learners" as LD in
order to help them--this has been hurting the LD program.

I would like to help all students who struggle in school, but I know that
mixing classes of cognitively disabled, behavior disordered, slow learners,
and learning disabled students in a program that was initially for the
learning disabled is really costing the LD students.

SUBJECT:  Re:Reply to
Wheels2082   Date:  97-01-16 13:29:45 EST
From:  RhoLaren

It is happening in all programs. Think of mixing them all in the regular
classroom? And there are Chapter 1 (or Title 1) programs that have to take LD
students even thought their programs are not set up for these types of
students. Sometimes, the children go into the chapter programs, because their
parents will not give the school system permission to test, and the school
wants to do something to help the child.  I really love it when special
teachers notice that it is hard to mix so many types of students in one class
when the class is a special education one. I wonder if these teachers can
make the stretch to think of how this is in the regular ed. classroom where
there is an even wider spread?


SUBJECT:  Re:Reply to Wheels2082   Date:  97-01-16 19:32:46 EST
From:  R u Niz

Believe it or not we do understand.  Most of the Sp-ed teachers I know are
trying to help.  We're fighting hard for the kids whose parents refuse to
allow evaluations, too.  We're on the same team, Rho.

SUBJECT:  Re:Reply to
Wheels2082   Date:  97-01-16 22:56:49 EST
From:  RhoLaren

R u niz,

Thank you. It is great when we are.

SUBJECT:  Friday News #26 - NPND Pt.1   Date:  97-01-17 10:25:44 EST
From:  ALauritzen

Senator Jeffords to Introduce IDEA

NPND learned this week that Senator James Jeffords is planning to introduce a
bill for the reauthorization of IDEA. At the time of this writing, we have
not seen a copy of this bill. We will include further updates next week.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 The "Son of Istook" is with us

On Tuesday, January 7, by a vote of 226 for and 202 against, the House of
Representatives passed the so-
called "Truth in Testimony" House Rule which requires certain witnesses
appearing before congressional
committees to describe the amount and sources of federal funds they receive.
The text of the new rule reads as follows:

"(4) Each committee shall, to the greatest extent practicable, require
witnesses who appear before it to
submit in advance written statements of proposed testimony and to limit their
initial oral presentations to the
committee to brief summaries thereof. In the case of a witness appearing in
nongovernmental capacity, a
written statement of proposed testimony shall include a curriculum vitae and
a disclosure of the amount and
source (by agency and program) of any Federal grant (or subgrant thereof) of
contract (or subcontract thereof)
received during the current fiscal year or either of the two previous fiscal
years by the witness or by an entity
represented by the witness."

This new rule only applies to witnesses appearing in person. It does not
apply to the submission of written
testimony. This language, while not changed from the draft that we recently
posted, should be read in light of
an explanatory paragraph attached to the resolution. The explanatory
paragraph states:

Information Required of Public Witnesses: Committees shall require to the
greatest extent practicable, that
non-governmental witnesses include as part of their written testimony that is
already required by House Rules to be submitted in advance, both a curriculum
vitae and a disclosure by source and amount of federal grants and contracts
received by them and any organizations they represent at that hearing in the
current and preceding two fiscal years, to the extent that such information
is relevant to the subject matter of, and the witness' representational
capacity at, that hearing. The purpose of these new requirements is to give
committee members, the public, and the press a more detailed context in which
to consider a witness' testimony in terms of their education, experience, and
the extent to which they or the organizations being represented have
benefited from Federal grants and contracts related to their appearance. It
is not the intention of this section, for instance, to require individuals to
disclose the amounts of Federal entitlements they have received, such as
Medicare or Social Security or other income support payments or individual
benefits, or to require farmers to disclose amounts received in crop or
commodity price support payments. Instead, the disclosure requirement is
designed to elicit information from those who have received Federal grants or
contracts for the purpose of providing the government or other individuals or
entities with specified goods, services, or information. While failure to
comply fully with the requirement would not give  rise to a point of order
against the witness testifying, it could result in an objection to including
the witness' written testimony in the hearing record in absence of such
disclosure.

Thanks to Alliance for Justice for this update on the Truth in Testimony
Rule.



SUBJECT:  Friday News #26 Pt.2   Date:  97-01-17 10:26:32 EST
From:  ALauritzen

Welfare Reform Publication

New issue papers by the Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law describe how the
1996 welfare law will affect children with serious mental, emotional or
behavioral disorders and highlight the opportunities and the dangers facing
states in decisions they must now make about implementing the law.

Designed for use by advocates and state policymakers, the set of five papers
is titled A Dubious Bargain. It
includes an overview, three papers on the programs that most affect children
with mental, emotional or
behavioral disorders- the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF)
block grant, the children's
supplemental security income (SSI) program and Medicaid-and one covering
other child-serving programs
changed by the welfare law (child welfare, social services, child care and
nutrition).

The issue papers recommend policies for states' implementation of each
program that could mitigate the
federal law's potentially negative impact on vulnerable children and
families.

To order A Dubious Bargain, send $2 per issue paper (or $7 for all five) plus
$4 postage and handling to
Publications Desk, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law, 1101 15th Street,
NW, #1212, Washington, DC
20005.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On November 29, 1996 - in Friday Fax, Number 25 - we published the Special
Education funding increase figures for each state. Has anyone used these and
investigated what is happening in your state? Are there good models of how
the increase in funds in your state benefited kids, families, or teachers?
We'd love to hear from you! Please e-mail or fax us any information you
gathered.






SUBJECT:  What legislation ....   Date:  97-01-17 17:19:19 EST
From:  Mittar

What legislation covers the Special ed student to be permitted back in school
after possessing a weapon?  How about possession of marijuana?
I am in PA and wondering if "Drug Free" school zones are recognized.  I was
under the impression that there was "zero tolerance". If a student was in
possession of a weapon on school that student was to be expelled from school.


Does anyone have any idea which group has the right to protection:  the
special ed student or the rest of the school population???

SUBJECT:  Re:What
legislation ....   Date:  97-01-17 20:21:49 EST
From:  RhoLaren

The proposed legislation for the reauthorization of IDEA addresses the
problem you describe.  Write your congressperson to see that the clauses in
the reauthorization allowing for the removal of the drug carrying, violent,
gun toting student are kept in the proposal.  They are there. I just read
them today. Not perfect, but better. The in situ provision is altered.

SUBJECT:
Re:Reply to Wheels2082   Date:  97-01-18 00:50:06 EST
From:  SusanS29

"Individuals who score 69 or below on IQ testing are what used to be called
retarded--"

but only if they have the same trouble functioning outside school as they do
in school.

"I would like to help all students who struggle in school, but I know that
mixing classes of cognitively disabled, behavior disordered, slow learners,
and learning disabled students in a program that was initially for the
learning disabled is really costing the LD students."

AMEN!

SUBJECT:  Re:Reply to Wheels2082   Date:  97-01-18 00:51:07 EST
From:  SusanS29

"I really love it when special teachers notice that it is hard to mix so many
types of students in one class when the class is a special education one. I
wonder if these teachers can make the stretch to think of how this is in the
regular ed. classroom where there is an even wider spread?"

But those regular teachers should have support. Where I live we've done this
quite successfully for decades (truly) but there's always been lots of
support available.

SUBJECT:  Re:What legislation ....   Date:  97-01-18 00:56:31 EST
From:  Jwmlda

Advocates have no problem with disciplining any student who brings a weapon
to school. However they have problems with ceasing all educational services
for such students.  NO student should be denied an education.  However the
price, both for the student and society is higher in the case of students
with disabilities who are denied an education.  Statistics show that students
with disabilities are much less apt to go back to school or to try for a GED.
The result - a individual who is unemployable and who will be a drain on
society - either on welfare or in prison.


SUBJECT:  Re:Reply to Wheels2082   Date:  97-01-18 04:01:18 EST
From:  BLiving769

"That's true nationwide."

In most of the schools in Mississippi the teachers are not doing
interventions prior to referrals.

SUBJECT:  Re:Reply to Wheels2082   Date:  97-01-18 10:35:11 EST
From:  RhoLaren

What the new additions to the legislation is addressing, is the fact that  a
parent can deny the school the ability to protect its other students from the
action of the one, simply because the one is IDEA.

SUBJECT:  Re:What legislation
....   Date:  97-01-18 12:19:21 EST
From:  Mittar

The concern comes in when someone says that the weapon-carrying or
drug-dealing is a "maifestation of the student's disabilty".  I have a
difficult time w/ that.  We end up having to write behavior plans to take
such things into account.  We cannot  possibly write a behavior plan to cover
each and every possible "inappropriate behavior" a student may try.

I agree, that these students should have their education continued, should
they wish it.  How many taxpayers, who scream about the cost of education,
realize that placing this student in an alternative placement may cost the
district lots of money?  Or, if a parent wished to take the district to a
hearing on the removal of their child from their "regular" school, despite
the fact their child has broken the law, that too costs the district money!!!

Contacting legislators to provide them information like this will hopefully
help the terrible situation that education is in!

SUBJECT:  Re:What legislation
....   Date:  97-01-18 16:14:17 EST
From:  RhoLaren

Mittar,
That is what I am getting at. The current legislation does not give a hoot if
the child is IDEA if has a gun. Thank god. Finally, we are getting somewhere.
And, that is what I would like you to write about, keeping it in the current
reauthorization. Finally, someone has come to their senses.

SUBJECT:  Re:What
legislation ....   Date:  97-01-18 16:23:04 EST
From:  Mittar

I have been here and trying to question WHAT IS GOING ON  w/ special ed?????
The laws as were intended, were good.  However, every child is NOT the
mentally challenged, learning disabled, physically handicapped, child that
many of the present laws exist for!!! There are kids getting away w/ LOTS of
stuff this legislation never intended it to include!!  The umbrella of this
legislation has covered far too many!!!

SUBJECT:  Re:What legislation ....   Date:  97-01-18 16:44:39 EST
From:  Ratatat

Does anybody know how many of the 10,000,000 LEARNING disabled children who
*should* be receiving services under IDEA actually are?

Does anybody know how many of the children currently receiving services under
IDEA are violent or gun-toting?

SUBJECT:  Re:What legislation ....   Date:  97-01-18 17:44:27 EST
From:  Mittar

One is in danger...

One is dangerous....

Both are protected by law and the teachers of both aren't protected at
all!

SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  97-01-18 17:46:03 EST
From:  SooBert

>>Someone mentioned how expensive it is to provide those servies and I must
be well off to believe I can provide servies for my own children.  This is
exactly my point, it is expensive, why make the school system accountable for
paying for these services?  I really don't see the connection.<<

I have gathered from previous posts that you call yourself a teacher.  I
guess you are one of the rare ones who don't believe "It takes a village to
raise a child."  The connection is that, in the human community, we ARE our
brothers keepers.  We have a responsibility to every child, regardless of
their needs or gifts.  If you don't help these children now, do you have any
doubt that you will be paying for them (permanently) later, either through
correctional institutions, or through welfare.  But, I guess you object to
that also.  Perhaps the answer is what the ancient greeks used - just take
your imperfect children and abandon them to the wilderness somewhere and let
nature take care of getting rid of them.

SUBJECT:  Re:Reposted: Changing IDEA   Date:  97-01-18 20:21:18 EST
From:  KClark5406

I have a child with disabilities. He is adopted and was abused as a infant.
He was born normal. He has been in self contained classses for 6 yrs at a
cost of 25,000+ a year. There has been no growth. Yet in the summer with the
regular child he grows. He should not have to earn a right to be with his
peers. An aide would be 8,000 a year in an inclusion program. Why not let him
try.  I am homeschooling and he's doing great


SUBJECT:  Re:Reposted: Changing IDEA   Date:  97-01-19 14:50:08 EST
From:  RhoLaren

Let's see. How should I put this. In another suburb, a child has been
molesting other children. The parents of the other children are very upset.
The paper had not, until today alluded to the fact that these parents had no
rights. Today, the paper said that the child was protected by federal
legislation, not specifically mentioning IDEA. I suspected it was, all along.
His parents do not want him out of his current placement. The parents of the
children he has molested do. The parents of the children he somehow missed
want him out, also. The board has proposed an aide to follow him around. Now,
let us see what the lessons are: if you have a disability, you can do any
darn thing you want, and you get a special person to cater to your needs. If
you have been molested, and are traumatized and afraid, you have no recourse.
You will have to see your attacker because he likes the school and his
parents do not want him removed. He had been molested as a child, no kidding.
Now, because his parents care only for him, other children have been brought
into the molestation web. Maybe they can have themselves declared disabled
and get any darn thing they want, also. Now, what if they want him out of
there? The law needs changing. And, the current revisions do not really
address such a situation. I have read them thoroughly. Am calling people I
know in that district and asking them to call their congressmen, as I am
doing Monday.

SUBJECT:  Re:Reposted: Changing IDEA   Date:  97-01-19 15:11:53 EST
From:  Mittar

How sadly unbelievable!!  Yet, I can tell of similar situations, in which a
wrong was clearly done, but because of legislation that essentially "enables"
wrongdoing, wrong continues to be done with no fear of reprisals.

I too will be contacting legislators to correct this inadequacy of IDEA.

SUBJECT:
Re:What legislation ....   Date:  97-01-19 17:02:19 EST
From:  Ratatat

Somehow, I think that maybe my questions were taken as rhetorical.  They are
not.  I do not know the answer and am curious about this.  I really would
like to know if anyone knows  how many of the 10,000,000 LEARNING disabled
children who *should* be receiving services under IDEA actually are and how
many of the children currently receiving services under IDEA are violent or
gun-toting?

SUBJECT:  Re:What legislation ....   Date:  97-01-19 17:38:52 EST
From:  Mittar

I have a general understanding of your concern.  However, my concern is the
present reality of those who are receiving services w/ considerations of guns
and drugs taken into account.  These are the detrimental aspect of the IDEA
legislation....they come into the situation knowing they are "covered" by
virtue of the fact they are special ed!!!!  There is something wrong
here!!!!

SUBJECT:  Re:Reposted: Changing IDEA   Date:  97-01-19 20:52:44 EST
From:  DebbieFr

Rho,

  As you and I both know that once a chold is no loger in school and commits
a crime like this, his disability will be a moot point in the eyes of the
judical system. My question is then, because he is a juvinile where is the
court system in the whole process?? Do the plan on trying him for his crimes
and impossing some type of sentence ( like a residential placement)??
I think that we do special ed. children a diservice when we allow them to
commit crimes and not be punished. Yes continue their education, somewhere
away from the others, but punish them. Once they are out of school the court
system will not stop because of disabilities!!

SUBJECT:  Re:Reposted: Changing
IDEA   Date:  97-01-19 22:56:11 EST
From:  Ratatat

<<As you and I both know that once a chold is no loger in school and commits
a crime like this, his disability will be a moot point in the eyes of the
judical system. My question is then, because he is a juvinile where is the
court system in the whole process?? Do the plan on trying him for his crimes
and impossing some type of sentence ( like a residential placement)??>>

Actually there is a rather long series of article on just this subject.  I've
only scanned the articles, but from what I've picked up it's clear that the
juvenille justice system will attempt to provide appropriate supports for
young people with disabilities who's committed a crime - such as commit them
to a residential center with appropriate treatments and environment to
address their needs for the purpose of attempting to keep them from being
habiuate criminals.

SUBJECT:  Re:Reposted: Changing IDEA   Date:  97-01-20 13:07:39 EST
From:  Mittar

What about wwhen a parent objects to the placement of their child in a
facility that is more able to provide them w/ the behavior modification and
academic programing that MAY help their child??

I again ask, at what point do we differ from an enabler?  I realize the child
that commits crime, possesses a weapon or possesses drug is a threat to the
school, but once that child is identified as special ed, things change.
Expulsion proceedings stop and the child who is in violation of the "zero
tolerance" of a school district, state or federal government now is entitled
to the education he  or she put in jeopardy.   Have I no rights as an
educator?  I know those kids in "regular ed" have no rights.

What can be done to change the injustice of the legislation which was
intended to help, but harms many others???

SUBJECT:  Need your input!   Date:  97-01-20 16:09:44 EST
From:  ALauritzen

A Message from NPND RE: IDEA

During the 105th Congress the IDEA will, once again, be up for
reauthorization. During similar efforts in the 104th Congress it became
apparent that the disability advocates here in the nation's capital were, at
times, taking positions that were not wholly supported by their
constituencies "in the field".  The NPND Board of Directors, in an effort to
make sure that NPND does not fall victim to a policy "disconnect" with its
membership, is redoubling it's efforts to get input and direction from all
NPND members!

Hence, starting with this communication, NPND will be soliciting input from
our members regarding a host of issues now confronting families. In the
future we hope to be able to produce mechanisms to garner as much input as
possible independent of the Friday Fax. It's important that NPND members
drive the policy positions that NPND takes. As we've said many times in the
past. NPND's presence and influence is directly connected to your active
involvement and participation in the formulation of NPND's policy positions.

ISSUE INPUT #1

Background:

During the last several attempts to reauthorize the IDEA the issue of
"discipline" has been a major, divisive issue that has divided "regular"
education advocates, disability advocates and parents of children and youth
with disabilities. HR5, as introduced in the House last week, again contains
"discipline" provisions that, in certain cases, would allow school districts
to cease educational services.  It seems apparent that most if not all
parents and advocates would oppose midifying the IDEA in a way that would
allow such a cessation of services. The issue is, therefore, are there any
modifications of the IDEA that parents and advocates would support that the
Congree could enact and feel they have assisted in bringing about "safe"
schools.

To that end, one possible policy option is permanently adopting the language
which comprised what is know as the "jeffords Amendment" The Jeffords
amendment allows a school principal to remove any student who brings a
firearm to shcool from the school premises immediately. It further allows for
the placement of that student in an "interim alternative setting" for up to
45 days. During the interim placement, a permanent placment for the student
is to be identified.  In many cases, it is anticipated that the "new"
placement will not be at the original school. Should the parents of this
student disagree with the placement decision, they have a right to appeal the
decision. However, during the appeal process the student remains in the
interim placement not the original placement. This differs from historic
practice and the language of the law which provided that during an appeal
process the student was to "stay put" in his original placement. Hence, for
students who bring firearms to school the historic concept of "stay put" is
eliminated.

As currently written, the Jeffords amendment will cease to exist or "sunset"
when the IDEA is reauthorized.

Please indicate your level of support for the following policy options
(5=support; 1=oppose)

Name
Organization
Type of NPND Member or not.
Phone:
Fax:
E-mail:

1. Retain the Jeffords amendment as a permanent part of the IDEA.    1  2  3
4  5
   Comments:



2. Retain and expand the Jeffords amendment by including weapons other than
and in addition to fire arms.
   1  2  3  4  5

Comments:


3.  Eliminate the Jeffords amendment in favor of broader, more sweeping
discipline lanuage. 1  2  3  4  5
Comments.



Any other comments.


Please e-mail or fax your comments to the National Parent Network on
Disabilities.

E-mail:  [e-mail]

Fax: [phone]


Thank you.




SUBJECT:  Re:Need your input!   Date:  97-01-20 18:08:02 EST
From:  RhoLaren

I read the text in the proposals, if that ammendment ceases, what is left? I
have read the text, and think that it does not go far enough. The way it is
written, the school needed to have mind read the student's intentions. There
are too many loopholes for a parent and a good lawyer to climb through. What
about a child with drugs? What about a child who is molesting others? What
about a student who assaults other students and teachers? We need to take a
stand. These children MUST be out of the regular schools. period. They are
not acting out of their disability. They are acting out the fact that no one
has given them meaningful discipline. If the child has an emotional problem,
then a more structured facility is in order. This child cannot possibly get
the services needed in the regular education, or school setting. We are not
helping these children by turning a blind eye. We are setting them up for
spending their adulthood in jail, or killed by someone who did not know that
as an IDEA child, this perpetrator deserved special treatment - translated,
not paying for transgressions. We are not helping anyone. We have created a
dual system here. One class of people has total rights, license, and the
other has no rights. Write congresspeople. Say that violence will not be
tolerated. Say that the IDEA, or any student who commits it is out.
period.

SUBJECT:  Re:Need your input!   Date:  97-01-20 18:11:33 EST
From:  Ratatat

Here are the proposed amendements, as written in 1995 by OSERS:

Proposed amendments to IDEA:

Subsection (h)(3)(B) would amend current section 615(e)(3)(B) (to be
redesignated as section 615(h)(3)(B)), added by P.L. 103-382, which permits
the removal of a child with a disability to an interim alternative
educational setting, for up to 45 days, if the child brings a gun to school.
The amendment would expand the scope of this provision to reach other types
of dangerous weapons, such as knives, and would rely on the definition of
"dangerous weapon" in section 930 of Title 18 of the U.S. Code. That section
makes it an offense to bring a dangerous weapon into a Federal facility.
While expansion of this provision to other types of weapons provides an
additional mechanism for addressing dangerous behavior by children with
disabilities, school districts must still comply with the nondiscrimination
requirement of section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, which prohibits
the removal of a child with a disability from a classroom if a nondisabled
child would not be removed for the same behavior.

In addition, subsection (h)(3)(C) would add a new subparagraph (C) to
paragraph (3) to give hearing officers the same authority as courts have to
order a change in the placement of a child with a disability to an interim
alternative educational setting, if the public agency demonstrates, by
substantial evidence, that maintaining the child in his or her current
placement is substantially likely to result in injury to himself or herself,
or to others. (This standard of "dangerousness" is taken from the Supreme
Court's 1988 decision in Honig v. Doe, 108 S.Ct. 592, and has been applied by
the lower courts.) The State or LEA would be responsible for arranging for an
expedited hearing in such a situation. While an LEA could still request a
court to intervene in these situations, it would be advantageous for schools
to have the additional option of going to a hearing officer to obtain a quick
decision about whether a child is dangerous and should be removed from the
classroom.

Finally, subparagraph (C)(iii) would provide that if the hearing officer
orders placement in an alternative educational setting and the parent
requests a due-process hearing, the child is to remain in the alternative
setting while the dispute is being resolved, unless the parents and the State
or local educational agency agree otherwise. This is the same rule that
currently applies to a child with a disability who brings a gun to
school.

SUBJECT:  Re:What legislation ....   Date:  97-01-20 18:20:41 EST
From:  Ratatat

<<Somehow, I think that maybe my questions were taken as rhetorical.  They
are not.  I do not know the answer and am curious about this.  I really would
like to know if anyone knows  how many of the 10,000,000 LEARNING disabled
children who *should* be receiving services under IDEA actually are? >>

Well, I actually found the answer to one of my questions. (I really was
serious about getting the answers!)

According to the latest OSERS annual report (1996), the number of students
presently being served under IDEA is 5.4 million students between the ages of
3-21.

Of those served, 43% spend most of their time in the regular education
classroom.

51.5% have Specific Learning Disabilities
20.8% have Speech/Language Impairment
11.6% have Mental Retardation
 8.7% have Severe Emotional Disorders
 1.3% have Hearing Impairments
 1.2% have Orthopedic Impairments
 2.2% have Other Health Impairments
  .5% have Visual Impairments
  .5% have Autism
  .1% have Traumatic Brain Injuries

The number of children served with Multiple Disabilities decreased 1.8% from
the previous year.

The 2.2% under Other Health Impaired reflects an 89% increase between 1990
and 1995, most of the increase attributable to children with Attention
Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder.

SUBJECT:  Reply to RhoLaren   Date:  97-01-20 20:35:02 EST
From:  Truman8

I agree with a great deal of what you have to say.  For instance, it is about
time IDEA reflected the role that regular ed. teachers play in the education
of students with disabilities.

As for your concern that no one is out there advocating for the
teacher...some of us are!!!  I was in an unusual position recently where a
regular ed. teacher new darn well what a special ed. kid needed.  She was
nothing short of courageous in the team meeting when she "suggested" her
thoughts to the administration.  They were quick to quiet her.  A few moments
later, I noticed that the teacher had raised a notebook off the table in my
direction.  It was just high enough for me, and luckily me alone, to read
what she had hastily scribbled.  "I need an aide."  Well, ten minutes later
she had an aide and still does.  I was lucky enough to have had an
opportunity to visit this teacher's room a few days before the meeting and
had gotten a chance to listen to what she had to say.  The result of this
unusual collaboration keeps me smiling every time I read letters about
teachers who can't force their views on a reluctant and financially strapped
district.



SUBJECT:  Re:Reply to RhoLaren   Date:  97-01-20 21:40:46 EST
From:  RhoLaren

That teacher is lucky to have you. That teacher needs to be congratulated, as
are you. Good going. That is the way it should be, sort of.

SUBJECT:
Re:Reposted: Changing IDEA   Date:  97-01-21 14:23:56 EST
From:  SusanS29

"What about wwhen a parent objects to the placement of their child in a
facility that is more able to provide them w/ the behavior modification and
academic programing that MAY help their child?? "

There's an appeals process established for every school district. The parent
follows the appeals process, and the decision gets made.

SUBJECT:  Re:Reposted:
Changing IDEA   Date:  97-01-21 21:59:39 EST
From:  RhoLaren

The parent can challenge the appeals process, and from the way the law seems
to be written, the parent has to prevail. This is no matter what the parent
wants or how crazy it is or how detrimental to all others. I have just read
the law, and finally understand why so many courts side with the parents.
They have no choice if following the law. We need a victims' rights provision
in IDEA. The parent whose child has been hurt needs to be able to have equal
input to the parent whose child did the hurting. That is what we need. As it
stands, the only one the courts see is the perp and his/her parents. We need
to provide some venue for the aggrieved to have their say in the process as
well. I am speaking of assault, drugs, weapons, totally disruptive class
environment.

SUBJECT:  Re:Reposted: Changing IDEA   Date:  97-01-22 00:13:28 EST
From:  SusanS29

"The parent can challenge the appeals process, and from the way the law seems
to be written, the parent has to prevail."

In my experience it's *always* the parent that appeals. I have served on
appeals committees and my experience (with a good system of course) is that
more often than not, the parent loses.

SUBJECT:  Re:Reposted: Changing IDEA   Date:  97-01-22 07:03:51 EST
From:  Ratatat

<< I have just read the law, and finally understand why so many courts side
with the parents. They have no choice if following the law.>>

Rho, the tricky part about law is that after it's written it has to be
interpreted.  The best place for that interpretation to take place is through
the court system.  By the best, I don't been that going to court is best, I
mean that once a case is decided by a court it offers a very good idea of how
the judicial system "reads" the intent of the law and how it would be applied
in a real case.  In a sense, none of us really know what the law means until
it's tested in a court and a court decision is made.  That's why the case law
is so important.

You say you want a "victims law."  Remember, that IDEA only deals with
individuals with disabilities.  It has no other focus - and it must follow
the US Constitution regarding due process rights and procedures.

It's so funny to me to here so much discussion over a few paragraphs in IDEA
that deals with the very, very few violent students who receive special
education services.  The number of parents I've been in contact with lately
who's children with learning disabilities and attention deficit disorder
who's right to an appropriate education is being violated.  I think that the
number of children who do not have the chance for the same access or benefit
to the education the schools as their non-disabled peers is, sadly, too
large.  I'm not talking about severely disabled children, or children  who
are violent... just kids who are average to above average kids who simply
cannot get an education because the schools do not follow the laws.

It's clear you are concerned about this issue.  However, in the bigger
picture of things, there are many more children who are not being served
appropriately or at all, and should be.

SUBJECT:  Re:Reposted: Changing IDEA   Date:  97-01-22 10:29:41 EST
From:  ALauritzen

How many of you have a mediation process established in your states? This is
a step before an issue gets to the courts.  It works, usually if all are
willing to participate. Unfortunately, some school districts want to take the
costly road and take it to court. They totally refuse to mediate.  Who pays
the court costs for the schools  - the tax payers. Who pays the costs for
parents - the parents.

I do believe there is language in the updated version of IDEA addressing the
use of mediation, before going to court.



SUBJECT:  Re:Reposted: Changing IDEA   Date:  97-01-22 12:01:37 EST
From:  RhoLaren

Ratatat,

I heartily agree with you. We are talking two different perspectives. You are
100% correct in that the majority of the students do not fall into the
catagories I have described. And, you are correct in asserting that the
rights of those children and parents that you most likely come into contact
with are not being served. We need to work to see that this situation is
corrected....
AND, I am totally correct in asserting that the minority of students that I
have described must be dealt with.period. And we do need a victim's rights
section of the IDEA. I know who it is dealing with. What a crock. There are
people who are IDEA and not IDEA who are affected by the minority of very
violent students. They MUST not be let out of the loop. After all,  we have
victims rights laws on the books now in criminal proceedings. And,
traditionally, criminal proceedings were set up to consider only the
situation of the accused. Change can occur if people's perceptions change. We
can change IDEA, also. Why are people so prone to protect the rights of this
minority of out of control students? It is hurting the rest of the students
who are not in this catagory.

SUBJECT:  Re:Reposted: Changing IDEA   Date:  97-01-22 17:00:36 EST
From:  Ratatat

<<Who pays the court costs for the schools  - the tax payers. Who pays the
costs for parents - the parents.  >>

Great.  We get to pay twice and our kid gets to pay big time too.

SUBJECT:
Caterization   Date:  97-01-23 15:25:01 EST
From:  Tina111162

I would like to know what the law states about getting the school to help in
cathing my son. He does it on his own just needs someone to stay in room, to
be sure he is doing properly. The school refuses to help in any way.Im in
Illinois if anyone knows please let me know!!!

Thank you, Tina

SUBJECT:  Re:Caterization   Date:  97-01-23 15:51:28 EST
From:  ALauritzen

Tina,
Catheterization is part of the related services provided up IDEA.  The
support for a student is in the Supreme Court decision called The Tatro
decision. Contact the Spina Bifida Chapter in Illinois. They should
information about Tatro.  Or called the Parent Training Center in your state
or the Protection and Advocacy Service.  They all should have information
available.

SUBJECT:  What's being made law...   Date:  97-01-23 16:39:32 EST
From:  Mittar

I will certainly agree that the vast majority of the students in the public
school system are NOT violent.  They are thankfully rare.

My concern is also the number of LD students who, perhaps because they have
been in special ed all their school-age lives, cannot cope w/ "regular
education"...modifications or not.  They get out of school, unable to read,
as they have been read to all their educational careers, because it is a
"modification" to regular education.  Why even try????

I teach a student, whose parent want him to have a teacher that "doesn't give
homework" .

We have kids who are so incredibly lazy and don't care, because mom or dad
will come in and demand the workload be reduced for their child.

We have been told that we HAVE TO make the kids we teach pass...no matter
what.

Is this what any special ed legislation was intended to do?
  How about a school district that offered to place an autistic student in a
specialized facility, as the district was not equiped to deal w/ (a 13 year
old) student's biting and striking both teachers and aides?
The district recognized the fact that they were not able to educate the child
adequately and were willing to pay for a special placement in, yet the
parents chose to take the district to a hearing.  THE PARENTS WON and now the
a "special class  and teacher" have to be set up just to meet the needs of
that particular student.  What is the cost to the taxpayer there?

I have tried to give several examples of what may be perceived as concerns
about IDEA.

Any comments???

SUBJECT:  School Loses Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-23 16:48:29 EST
From:  DVC Mom

Ratatat, SusanS29, and others,

I read the following front page headline and story in THE KNOXVILLE NEWS
SENTINEL this morning and felt it would be of interest to posters on this
board.  The following  is from the front page story written by David Keim
(News-Sentinel staff writer):

     The Knox County school system has lost a nationally watched court case
involving school officials' ability to file criminal charges against unrully
special education students.
     "Upon review, our office will discuss with the school system whether
this should be appealed to the United States Supreme Court," said Cathy
Quist, deputy county law director.
     The 6th U.S> Circuit Court of Appeals affirmed Tuesday that Knox County
acted improperly in filing a juvenile petition against Chris L. , who kicked
in a water pipe in a Northwest Middle School bathroom in May, 1993.
causinabout $1000 damage.
     While school officials typically can take students to Juvenile Court if
they're accused of destroying school property, Chris L. had attention deficit
hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), which led to his behavioral problems.
     Because of that disability , his case needed to be handled in keeping
with the federal Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA).
     School officials have said the case essentially shows whether special
education students have immunity if they commit their crime at school.
     Lawyers for ChrisL., however, said the issue is that school officials
didn't follow the rules with the 13-year old.
     "This (appellate court ruling) is a common-sense decision," said Brenda
McGee, who represented the student with her hysband, Dean Rivkin.  "It says
that when schools have students with behavioral disabilities, they should see
if they can do something to help before they refer the problem in the courts.
They should not have to be ordered by two federal courts to do what is fair."
     The appellate court ruled Knox County didn't follow IDEA procedures with
Chris L. that would have addressed his behavioral problems prior to the
vandalism incident.
     "Chris was not afforded IDEA protections before being subjected to
Juvenile Court prosecution by the Knox County School," the three-judge panel
ruled.
     "Indeed, rather than affording Chris the procedural safeguards mandated
by IDEA, the Knox County Schools sought to exclude him through a punitive and
disciplinary measure in juvenile court,"  the judges wrote.
     Under Idea, a Multidisciplinary Team (M-Team) organized by people with
knowledge of the child and his behavior must make or review all decisions
that could change his educational placement.  The filing of a juvenile
petition constituted such a change.
     Parents who disagree with a change can request a due process hearing.
Until that hearing is completed---which can take several months---a child
must remain in his current placement.
     Knox County filed a juvenile petition against Chris five days before the
M-Team meeting.
     "By filing a juvenile court petition, the Knox County School System
threatened Chris with a fundamental alteration  'in his educational
program,'" the court ruled.  "Indeed, the school system's filing of the
petition is at odds with its obligation to provide Chris with a free and
appropriate education under the IDEA.
    "The record reveals that Cbegan the 1992-93 school year without the
special education and supportive and corrective services to which the IDEA
entitled him.  School officials continued to treat Chris as a disciplinary
problem even though they knew that he suffered from ADHD and was being
medically treated for his problem.
    "Accordingly, the juvenile delinquency petition filed on May 12, 1993,
must be viewed as a breach of the school system's obligation under the IDEA
to identify, evaluate, and appropriately educate Chris as a child with
disabilities."      *CONTINUED ON NEXT POST*









SUBJECT:  Re:What's being made law...   Date:  97-01-23 16:54:25 EST
From:  Ratatat

<<I teach a student, whose parent want him to have a teacher that "doesn't
give homework" .
We have kids who are so incredibly lazy and don't care, because mom or dad
will come in and demand the workload be reduced for their child.
We have been told that we HAVE TO make the kids we teach pass...no matter
what.
Is this what any special ed legislation was intended to do?>>

These examples are not problems with the law, per se, but rather problems
within your own state or district and how the law is implemented.  Understood
and applied as intended, IDEA is an excellent law.

If you'd really like to get a very good grounding in what IDEA and Section
504 are really all about, please read Extraordinary Children, Ordinary Lives
by Reed Martin.  It's quite a wonderful and short series of well written
essays that explain what these laws are intended to do and should be
doing.

SUBJECT:  Court Case (continued)   Date:  97-01-23 17:04:11 EST
From:  DVC Mom

(continued from previous post)

The judges upheld lower rulings-----by an administrative law judge appointed
by the state Department of Education and by U.S. District Court Judge Leon
Jordan---which called on the school system to dismiss the Juvenile Court
petition.
     John McCook,special education supervisor for Knox County, was unsure of
the exact impact of the ruling.
    "We'll discuss it with our attorneys and see what their interpretation is
before we do anything else," McCook said.
     While the county Law Department provides legal counsel to the school
board, the board also retains Atlanta lawyer Charles Weatherly, who handled
the case/  Calls to Weatherley's office weren't returned.
     McCook said Congress, in requthorizing IDEA, is considering changes that
would allow filing of juvenile petitions.
    "Obviously there's a lot of interest (in the case) around the country
because it's one of the issues thatbeen addressed in the attempts at
reauthorization, " McCook said.

Sorry this was long but I thought everyone would like to read the  entire
article.  This school system is located in East Tennessee.   Also, I'm not
familiar with any of the individuals involved since I work for a small local
school system south of Knoxville. It will be interesting to see whether this
goes to the Supreme Court or not.  Any comments?  I  personally can't believe
the school system didn't have an M-Team meeting prior to filing a juvenile
petition.  Big mistake!!!

See ya,
DVCMOM

SUBJECT:  Re:What's being made law...   Date:  97-01-23 17:30:51 EST
From:  Mittar

I can respect the concept of our district doing certain things.  But, what I
wrote of was 3 districts interpretations of IDEA.

Question is how do we reconcile this with the legislation?

SUBJECT:  Please help
with some info    Date:  97-01-23 18:18:33 EST
From:  HnnhMom

In reading the postings re: IDEA and the lack of protection for the rights of
teachers many are as frustrated as I am.  As a special educator I have been
victim of a severe bite this year, as well as daily pinches, hits,kicks etc.
I truly believe I am employed to provide an individualized program for each
child.  However, the programs for my other students have been less
individualized due to the needs of this one student.  I am trying to remain
positive and upbeat--however I am exhausted.  We have rewritten the IEP four
times this year--working cooperatively with guardian.  This child does not
handle an entire day of school in a productive manner.  He requires as many
as two adults in the afternoon and spends two hours attacking, throwing fits,
and/or running away.  Believe me, we have tried many interventions and are
willing to try more.  He has hurt many of our educational assistants and
students.  He requires adult assistance at all times.  I have had some very
positive times with him and he is able to hold it together for 20 minutes at
a time.  He is a capable child and we try to make school as meaningful as
possible for him.  He is 8 years old.

     In following the laws and IEP procedures, we continue to look at what is
appropriate for this child.  He is assigned a 1:1 assistant and works with 2
special educators.  The OT/PT/SPE have been supportive and beneficial in his
program.  He accesses the community for functional and meaningful activities.
He starts to come undone by 11:20--after lunch.  We have cooperatively worked
out a shortened day schedule.  It has been successful at school and we have
seen a child who is more available for learning.  He, at this point , can not
tolerate a full day of school.  During the first 9 weeks of school, his
entire pm was a pick up after the behavior pm--it was maintaining a safe
place for him, the teachers and the rest of the student body.  He has been
much less aggressive, more productive and happier--yes , we are able to take
some data.

     I know in my heart that we are doing the right thing.  Why do I worry so
much about it?  What are my rights in this situation.  I respect the parents
in this situation, however her opinion and demeanor fluctuate from week to
week.  We document everything and try to keep on an even level.

     The continuum of services in Special Education exists for a reason.  I
believe that we have followed the rules and have responded to the needs of
this individual child.  Any comments would be welcome.  You can post here or
e-mail me at [e-mail]

SUBJECT:  Re:Court Case (continued)   Date:  97-01-23 19:01:03 EST
From:  Ratatat

<Any comments?  I  personally can't believe the school system didn't have an
M-Team meeting prior to filing a juvenile petition.  Big mistake!!!>

Bingo!  And, based on that ommission alone they would have lost.

SUBJECT:
Re:What's being made law...   Date:  97-01-23 20:54:17 EST
From:  Wheels2082

Mittar,
I've seen it happen to my high school peers graduate lacking some of the
things to make successful inclusion. In regular health class (resource room
health wasn't instituted til my senior year), they along with their friends
would congregate in a corner and chat. I've seen resource room students
repeat a grade. Communication between junior high and high school
communication lacking concerning the curriculum in the resource room. Need I
say more.
The key to make inclusion work is to prepare early disabled students between
kindergarten and second grade.  Concentrate on the basics reading, writing,
study skills, and mathematics. Then, the students would be ready for general
education. By following the guidelines that I've pointed out, the student
should be ready for inclusion.

Dawn Saur (Wheels2082)
Online Teacher
Special Education ADVOCATE

SUBJECT:  Re:School Loses Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-23 21:30:41 EST
From:  RhoLaren

I thought ADHD was not an IDEA concept. Why was that Knoxville boy allowed to
be IDEA provisioned when he was a 504 student?

SUBJECT:  Re:School Loses Court
Case!!   Date:  97-01-23 21:35:07 EST
From:  RhoLaren

No, IDEA is not an excellent law if it treats one set of parents as little
tin gods, and all others as potential victims. I know, the majority of
children need help and have pretty good parents who will work within a just
system. However, the law as it is now, gives horrible parents too much power.
AND, what M T meeting if the child is ADHD? And, did his parents allow him to
be tested? And, the law is written so that if there are 100 things to do for
a child, and the school system only does 99, the courts have to rule against
the school system. Needs changing. Write your congress person.

SUBJECT:
placement   Date:  97-01-23 21:36:50 EST
From:  RhoLaren

Re: The autistic boy. That is what is so stupid about the law. One set of
parents can demand the child go to another school district, another set of
parents can demand that the child not leave the district. No common
denominators except that the parents get whatever they want.

SUBJECT:  Re:School
Loses Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-23 23:27:08 EST
From:  ADDisREAL

<<I thought ADHD was not an IDEA concept. Why was that Knoxville boy allowed
to be IDEA provisioned when he was a 504 student?>>

Children with ADD or ADHD are often served under IDEA within the category of
"other health impaired."



SUBJECT:  Re:School Loses Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-23 23:29:06 EST
From:  ADDisREAL

<<However, the law as it is now, gives horrible parents too much power. AND,
what M T meeting if the child is ADHD? And, did his parents allow him to be
tested?>>

Okay, so somebody judges that the parents are horrible and takes over the
decision making for the family about the child.  Who will be there at 3pm
when school gets out to take over the decision making?  What you are
suggesting is very close to a totalitarian state where the "state" judges and
overrides individual rights.  I don't like it.

SUBJECT:  Re:What's being made
law...   Date:  97-01-24 00:16:09 EST
From:  SusanS29

"My concern is also the number of LD students who, perhaps because they have
been in special ed all their school-age lives, cannot cope w/ "regular
education"...modifications or not.  They get out of school, unable to read,
as they have been read to all their educational careers, because it is a
"modification" to regular education.  Why even try????"

Boy I don't know because I only had one student who didn't learn to read (his
mother refused the level of services he needed). Maybe my school district was
exceptionally good... but in truth students who get LD services really
shouldbe learning to read.

The issue to me isn't "what happens to them afterwards" but "Why aren't they
learning to read with all that help?"

SUBJECT:  Re:What's being made law...   Date:  97-01-24 00:17:51 EST
From:  SusanS29

"I teach a student, whose parent want him to have a teacher that "doesn't
give homework" .

We have kids who are so incredibly lazy and don't care, because mom or dad
will come in and demand the workload be reduced for their child. "

Some of these kids are in such crisis over school work that homework causes
World War III at home. Under those circumstances the child won't benefit from
the homework anyway.

There's a lot of finger-pointing here: the child is lazy; the parents want
this or that.

Find out what the *child* needs. Deliver that, and everything else will fall
into place eventually.

SUBJECT:  Re:School Loses Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-24 00:21:16 EST
From:  SusanS29

"     The Knox County school system has lost a nationally watched court case
involving school officials' ability to file criminal charges against unrully
special education students."

There's a *huge* difference between filing criminal charges and getting a
child in appropriate placement. In my opinion it's ludicrous to seek criminal
charges against "unruly" students. Manage their behavior or get them into a
more appropriate setting but don't clog the courts with such nonsense.
Criminializing misbehavior is *not* a solution for anything.

""It says that when schools have students with behavioral disabilities, they
should see if they can do something to help before they refer the problem in
the courts."

Absolutely. If the school didn't do a good job of managing the student, they
should *not* have the recourse of dumping it on the courts.

It sounds here as if there were two issues -- the student's action and the
school's lack of help prior to the crisis. Since the school has a
responsibility to do that...

SUBJECT:  Re:School Loses Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-24 00:23:48 EST
From:  SusanS29

"I thought ADHD was not an IDEA concept. Why was that Knoxville boy allowed
to be IDEA provisioned when he was a 504 student?"

Students with ADHD are sometimes covered by IDEA under the classification
"Other Health Impaired," since ADHD is a neurological disorder.

SUBJECT:
Re:School Loses Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-24 10:32:00 EST
From:  ALauritzen

If a student with behavior problems were turned over to the Juvenile Justice
system, there are very little or no services available in the justice system
to address their needs.  Then what will happen to the student.  Be out of
school, no job, possibly on the street, etc.   So what is the alternative,
the schools the courts and the parents working together to decide what is
best for the student.  Otherwise, they all loose.

SUBJECT:  Friday News #27 Part
1   Date:  97-01-24 11:22:39 EST
From:  ALauritzen

Senate IDEA Bill to be Introduced Monday

On Monday, Senator Jim Jeffords will introduce the Senate version of IDEA
from the 104th
Congress. On video to the Solidarity 2000 audience, he stated, "this will be
a starting point" to get
IDEA reauthorized. On Wednesday, at 10am, the Senate will hold a full
committee hearing on
their bill. Latest word is that there will be 12 witnesses.

Parents everywhere - Let Senator Jeffords and Congressman Goodling know what
you want in the
bill for your child!

The Honorable Jim Jeffords, US Senate, Washington, DC 20510

The Honorable William Goodling, US House of Representatives, Washington, DC
20515
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Balanced Budget Amendment Reappears in Senate

Hearings on the Balanced Budget Amendment began in the Senate Judiciary
Committee last week.
Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott (R-MS) has indicated that he will bring
the measure to the floor
of the Senate on February 3rd. NPND joined many other organizations in a
letter explaining their
opposition to the amendment, citing the belief that "The American public has
a right to know how
a balanced budget will be achieved before a balanced budget amendment is
enacted. Which
important programs-education, health care, social security, transportation,
job training-will
either be dramatically cut or eliminated, threatening America's vital
interests?" Currently, the
amendment proposal enjoys great support in both the House and the Senate.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's Time to Roar!"

This quotation from NPND Board member Nancy Diehl was the theme of the
Solidarity 2000
Inaugural celebration held on January 17, 1997 in downtown Washington, DC.
Over 1000 people
gathered to honor the Inauguration of the President and Vice President, and
the Disability
Community. After an elegant breakfast, attendees were addressed by
politicians and advocates,
including Justin Dart, Senator Jim Jeffords, via videotape,  and Senator Tom
Harkin. NPND's
newly elected President , Debra Johnson, addressed the crowd about the
vision of education for all,
saying, "Twenty years ago America promised educational guarantees to our
children with
disabilities. America must honor this promise by implementing, enforcing,
and appropriately
funding the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Istook Amendment Reintroduced in House

Representative Istook (R-IN) has introduced another proposal to limit the
ability of non-profit
organizations to lobby. This bill would prevent 501(c)(4) organizations that
receive federal funds
to affiliate with organizations that lobby, such as 501(c)(3)s. The bill has
been referred to the
House Judiciary Committee, not the Appropriations Committee where most of
the Istook activity
took place in the last Congress. It is not clear that this bill will move,
as the Judiciary is "less than
fertile ground for Istook proposals."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Children's Health Coverage

Senate Democrats are circulating two different proposals for expanding
children's health coverage.
Senate Minority Leader Daschle's (D-SD) proposal would seek to expand
coverage by using tax
credits, while Senator Kennedy (D-MA) has proposed a system of vouchers to
the states. Both
proposals, which are part of the Democrats' long term strategy of achieving
incremental health care
reform, are considered to be preliminary.

Thanks to the ARC for this health coverage report.



SUBJECT:  Friday News #27, Part 2   Date:  97-01-24 11:23:40 EST
From:  ALauritzen

Children & Healthcare Week

Children & Healthcare Week is held annually in March to increase public and
professional
awareness of the special needs of children and families in healthcare
settings, directly involving
thousands of individuals. During the week-long international event,March
16-22, hospitals,
schools, libraries, museums, and communities host educational presentations,
health fairs, teddy
bear clinics, art contests, class trips to hospitals, and more. The
educational component of the 1997
Week will focus on preparation for healthcare experiences. A community
outreach program,
successfully launched in 1996, entitled Project CARE (Community Awareness
through Resources
and Education), encourages learning about healthcare through partnerships
between ACCH-
member hospitals and their local elementary schools. For information on how
to sponsor or
participate in CHW, contact the Association for the Care of Children's
Health, 7910 Woodmont
Avenue, Suite 300, Bethesda, MD 20814, 800-808-ACCH.


SUBJECT:  Re:School Loses Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-24 11:36:01 EST
From:  RhoLaren

ADDis REAL,

I do not like the idea of the state taking over, believe me. But, by giving
some parents total power, and other parents virtually none, that really
accomplishes the same thing. The "state" passed the laws leading to this
discrepancy. Therefore, the state is already controlling what occurs. Now, I
do not know what the history of the Knoxville problem are. I do know that
some parents refuse testing for their children. And, I do know, that when
these very children do not pass competency tests, these very same parents now
want their child tested to avoid not getting a diploma. Remember, schools
keep records. We know who we asked to be tested, and what the response was.
We need to look at cases individually. Not everyone is all angel or all
devil.

SUBJECT:  Re:School Loses Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-24 11:39:35 EST
From:  RhoLaren

What if the Knoxville student did nothing really out of the ordinary until
this incident? How can the school prejudge possible actions?? I really did
get too many pertinent details from the article posted here to be able to
draw any conclusions as to what the school did or did not do. And, you are
correct in that maybe children should not be turned over to the criminal
courts. BUT, the schools are so hog tied as to what they can do, that
sometimes this is the only viable solution for protecting all the others. Or,
in some cases, take the child out of the home if determined that the home is
training him/her to be out of control.

SUBJECT:  Re:School Loses Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-24 14:11:11 EST
From:  Ratatat

<<I do not like the idea of the state taking over, believe me. But, by giving
some parents total power, and other parents virtually none, that really
accomplishes the same thing. The "state" passed the laws leading to this
discrepancy.>>

Huh?  You lost me here.  Can you clarify this statement?

SUBJECT:  Re:What's
being made law...   Date:  97-01-24 16:11:35 EST
From:  Mittar

What several of the teachers I work with see hapenning is:

a) students who are less and less willing to work to accomplish learning a
skill.  Often preferred is "take the easy way out"  cause that's why we are
in Special Ed.

b) students who expect more for doing less.

c) unrealistic expectations from both students and parents as to what the end
result of Special Ed
   will be for their child.

d) a federal mandate, left to state to state interrpretation (BEWARE ,
welfare reform may lend itself to the same fate)

e) parents who want their child placed in special ed in the 11th grade so
they may benifit from the extra time provision for taking SATs.

f) transition planning, so that the school must be sure to "take the lead" in
predicting an outcome for a student....

The picture painted is one of entitlement after entitlement, with the school
being responsible for ALL!!!  I am not teaching at the beginning end of
education of a child.  I teach in a high school, where the prevalent attitude
of the students is "I don't care" and "I just want out".  The prevalent
atttitude of the parents is "Just get my child to graduate".  SHOULDN'T THERE
BE MORE TO IT?

Please understand that I DO know many children have gained from what Special
Ed legislation has done for SOME.  But  as teachers, we see another
generation of people who feel things are owed to them without having to owe
to anyone or anything!


SUBJECT:  Re:What's being made law...   Date:  97-01-24 18:40:51 EST
From:  R u Niz

I have to jump in here.  I teach at the JR. High level .  I often have
students on my caseload that think that Sp-Ed should make less work for them.
I quickly *educate* them that their learning disability means they have to
work harder to accomplish the work.  It may not seem fair, but that's why we
have invested in Sp-ed classes.

Maybe you see more of this *lazy* or deflated attitude in High School because
even many of this nation's non-disabled high school students lose motivation
at that age.

Please don't lose sight of the many students who are greatful for the
assistance.  Sometimes it seems like we spend an awful lot of time forgetting
to focus on the positive.

This has been a very stressful week for me.  I'm going to spend my weekend
thinking about my seventh grade emotionally abused formerly totally
illiterate but now emergent reader, and not let myself think about the four
disrespectful borderline BD students who ruin my last period of the
experience 2-3 times a week.

SUBJECT:  Re:School Loses Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-24 19:26:38 EST
From:  RhoLaren

The concept, Ratatat, is this. When the state makes no law, it is taking a
stand. When the federal govt. had no IDEA, it set policy. The policy was to
leave the decisions up to the state. That was the policy. When IDEA was
passed, the state (meaning the feds) took a new role. It is policy by
omission, or policy by commission. In this situation. The policy is clear.
Parents of special education students have total power if they choose to
exercise it. (Most people are fair, but some will push for a power trip, in
every facet of human behavior, not just here).  By not having victim impact
statements allowed when the school wants to expel someone for violence,
molestation, gun or drug toting, the state has made the decision that the
alleged perpetrator has rights, and the people who were allegedly hurt by
him/her have none. By addressing the concerns of the parents of the special
education student, and not addressing the concerns of the parents of the
non-special education student, the state has taken a stand. And, the stand is
that no one else has rights to protect themselves. If the parent wants the
child back in the setting in which the child has caused havoc, thus spake the
lord. Remember, I am talking about extreme cases here, in most of them, there
is probably no problem with the state of affairs as it is.

SUBJECT:  Re:Friday
News #27 Part 1   Date:  97-01-24 19:54:49 EST
From:  Mom424

Anne, is there a bill number for the Senate's version of IDEA. mom424

SUBJECT:
Re:School Loses Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-24 21:22:34 EST
From:  DVC Mom

My understanding is that Knox County expelled this student and took court
action against him without going to the M-Team first.  The court had no
recourse but to judge against the school system when (according to the
article) they had made no attempt to accomodate his needs first through the
proper procedures as outlined by IDEA.  The outcome might have been different
if they had gone through the M-Team process first.

I haven't read the local paper today but it's certainly the topic of
discussion here in East Tennessee.  Many of our regular ed teachers are
appalled and upset by the decision but the consensus among  special educators
I know is that it is the right one since the school system so flagrantly
ignored the provisions under the IDEA law.  How could the judges have ruled
otherwise under the circumstances?   It will be interesting to see if this
decision will have an impact on the reauthorization of IDEA and changes
recommended for dealing with disruptive students.

BTW, ADD and ADHD  can be considered under Health Impaired in TN.


SUBJECT:  Re:What's being made law...   Date:  97-01-25 07:27:44 EST
From:  Mittar

 I certainly respect your dedication to the "one" student, who has emerged as
an example of what
we love to see happen to someone who is willing to achieve.  That is a
wonderful story and, it does make you believe in the system. Continued
success to you both!

Apathy does seemto run wild at the high school.

  But again, what about those laws which have been abused the system?  Or,
are we unable to have abuses of special ed laws?  I  see "right" being given
to the drug offender, the weapon carrier and you bet that angers me!  It also
anger me to have a parent tell me their LD child shouldn't have work at home.
The reason he has work at home is because he did not complete it in school
and I am giving him his opportunity to make it up.  They can demand and
demand and I can't!  In the long run, what has been created is situation in
which less is required because the student "has the right" to do less because
he is special ed.

I do know the ones who come for help, want assistance, take positive
advantage of being in Special Ed.  In their parents I find support for their
child and for the teacher.  But, what about the others?   I still don't think
the policies set up by the federal government intended this to happen, but
there is nothing to stop it now!

SUBJECT:  Re:What legislation ....   Date:  97-01-25 11:15:28 EST
From:  Arloateach

What is wrong is that IDEA gives all parents rights, if a parent of an
abusive child aka sex molester is a special ed student, parents have the
right to keep that child in their current placement due to his disability.
Parents even use ( I say abuse) these rights with incredible demands everyday
in education.  A kid with an IEP brings a gun to school, oh no we can't expel
him, it is part of his handicapping disability, poor thing.  Parents demand
their rights for their child and he still comes to school everyday.  Your
right IDEA does not cover these incredible wrongs, FIX IT!!

SUBJECT:  Re:RhoLaren   Date:  97-01-25 11:25:14 EST
From:  Arloateach

Good for you, I agree totally with your premise and thoughts on how IDEA
needs changing, but I go another step further. When these kids are out of
public school, public school should not have to pay for their private lock up
institutions either, or their private school placement.

SUBJECT:  Re:What's being
made law...   Date:  97-01-25 11:35:14 EST
From:  Ratatat

<< I teach in a high school, where the prevalent attitude of the students is
"I don't care" and "I just want out".>>

I wonder if this tell us more about how high school is taught than about the
students.

SUBJECT:  Re:Caterization   Date:  97-01-25 11:38:16 EST
From:  Arloateach

I think there are real issues teachers need to think about here.  In this new
and suit happy age, caterization would be or should be a teacher's union
issue.  I know I would refuse dealing with a child in this situation UNION
REP WOULD HAVE TO BE PRESENT EACH AND EVERY TIME!
Why can't the parent be available for this duty?


SUBJECT:  Re:School Loses Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-25 11:43:26 EST
From:  Ratatat

<<The concept, Ratatat, is this. When the state makes no law, it is taking a
stand. When the federal govt. had no IDEA, it set policy. The policy was to
leave the decisions up to the state. That was the policy. When IDEA was
passed, the state (meaning the feds) took a new role.>>

Rho, it might be helpful to you to see the "history" or progression of the
special education laws.  What we now call IDEA is really the EHA which has
been around since 1965.

The history of federal laws to provide individuals with disabilities with
rights and protection in education goes back to 1965.  Since that time there
have been more than 17 federal acts and amendments passed by Congress to help
address the needs of individuals with disabilities and issues of
discrimination.

P.L. 94-142, Education of all Handicapped Children Act of 1975.  This law,
originally called EHA, but now called IDEA (because of an important amendment
in 1990) finalized special education regulations and grew out of earlier acts
(such as P.L. 91-230, "Part B" and P.L. 93-380) and states that students with
disabilities are entitled to a free and appropriate public education in the
least restrictive environment.

Amendment: In 1983 EHA was amended (through Public Law 98-199) The changed
law expanded incentives for preschool special education programs, early
intervention and transition programs.  All programs under EHA became the
responsibility of the Office of Special Education Programs (OSEP).

Amendment:  In 1986, EHA was again amended (through Public Law 99-457 - the
EHA Amendments of 1986).  An important outcome of these amendments was that
the age of eligibility for special education and related services for all
children with disabilities was lowered to age three.  This law also
established the Handicapped Infants and Toddlers Program, called Part H.

Amendment: In 1990 Congress passed the "Education of the Handicapped Act
Amendments of 1990" (Public Law 101-476).  This new law resulted in
significant changes.  For example, the name of EHA was amended to the
Individuals with Disabilities Education Act - IDEA.  Many of the
discretionary programs were expanded, and some new discretionary.

SUBJECT:
Re:What's being made law...   Date:  97-01-25 11:43:36 EST
From:  Arloateach

This type of parent's rights makes me crazy!!  You try to do the best you
can, but the parent prevails NO MATTER WHAT.  Usually due to the "sympathy
factor1"  I just had an austitic child taken out of my LH class, which she
never should have been placed to being with.  They placed her, at parent
demand, in a regular class with a full time aide.  Now this child can pretty
much function  at the 18 month old level.  It is rediculous!  I would have
loved to be a fly on the wall after the first day and hear what this regular
ed. teacher had to say!!!

SUBJECT:  Re:School Loses Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-25 11:53:51 EST
From:  Ratatat

<<By not having victim impact statements allowed when the school wants to
expel someone for violence, molestation, gun or drug toting, the state has
made the decision that the alleged perpetrator has rights, and the people who
were allegedly hurt by him/her have none. >>

Absolute words like "total" and "none" make this statement arguable.  The
states do, now, have recourse - but they must follow procedure and
regulations in the proper order.  Since these regulations are not new, there
is - in my opinion - little excuse for school administrators not knowing
about them or how to follow them.

I don't understand why you are harping on this one small piece of IDEA.
Though I don't discount the fact that the problems caused by children who
behave violently aren't real - they are.

I think, that in many, many cases, the schools are reaping what they have
sown.  If the intent of IDEA had been taken seriously and to heart, many of
the problems that are being experienced today in special education just would
not exist.

Though I have a great deal of respect and admiration for classroom teachers
who have been placed in tenuous environments by their administrations, I hold
little simpathy for schools and school districts who whine, when - in fact -
they have rarely worked hard to meet their obligations and responsiblities.
I don't think they've "earned" the right to complain.

SUBJECT:  Re:What
legislation ....   Date:  97-01-25 11:56:17 EST
From:  Ratatat

<<
What is wrong is that IDEA gives all parents rights>>

And, thank God for that.

SUBJECT:  Re:Caterization   Date:  97-01-25 11:58:47 EST
From:  Ratatat

<<I know I would refuse dealing with a child in this situation UNION REP
WOULD HAVE TO BE PRESENT EACH AND EVERY TIME! Why can't the parent be
available for this duty?>>

Oh, I'd love to be there watching you refuse and then watching the process
play out.  You alredy know that the Supreme Court of the United States has
decided on this.  If you really care to understand how and why read the
Taltos case cited.  It might make more sense to you then.



SUBJECT:  Re:School Loses Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-25 11:59:12 EST
From:  Arloateach

Not everyone has to be a loser, the parents could take over their
responsibility and teach the child at home.

SUBJECT:  Re:Friday News #27 Part 1   Date:  97-01-25 13:51:04 EST
From:  ALauritzen

MOM424,

The bill wasn't introduced last Thursday as planned. It will be introduced
Monday, hopefully! Will let you know as soon as I find out.

SUBJECT:
Re:Caterization   Date:  97-01-25 14:01:08 EST
From:  ALauritzen

Catheterization has already been decided in the  U.S. supreme court as a
related service.  This allows the child to take part in school and hopefully
receive an education. Teachers are not the only ones that can assist in this
situation.  Catheterizing is a very simple procedure- anybody can do it.
School can have aides available to assist. Schools can have LPN, or RN if
they have a problem the the Nursing Practices Act.

Parents work. We are not sitting around eating bonbon all day.

Why are you so down on Parents. If you will read the information that I have
posted in the last week. The Friday News, The ISSUE #1 document that
specifically addresses your issues of children bring guns to school and
parents trying to say it is their disability. The law right now, says the
child has to stay put. If Senator Jeffords gets his amendments in, children
that are violent to others, who bring weapons to school ( which may I add is
a very small number) will be put into alternative placements immediately.

Personally, I have dealt with the catherization issue for my son all the time
he was in school.  The Tatro decision stands and always will until it is
changed.

SUBJECT:  Re:School Loses Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-25 14:30:33 EST
From:  RhoLaren

Doesn't anyone think that by the time a child does the damage he was alleged
to have done, it was a little to late for the M team????? That is the point I
am getting at.

SUBJECT:  Re:What's being made law...   Date:  97-01-25 14:36:24 EST
From:  RhoLaren

Ratatat,
Re: your comment on the many bored students and what this tells us about high
school. Could not agree with you more. BUT, we might have different reasons
why we think this is so. :-)

SUBJECT:  Re:School Loses Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-25 14:46:00 EST
From:  RhoLaren

Ratatat,
I was not referring to IDEA only. One of the ways to think about something.
For example, people are now talking about assisted suicide. I am not talking
for or against. Some people think that because we have no laws governing it
that we have no policies. The policies in the absence of a policy are being
made at a local, or individual level. By not having a law governing assisted
suicide, does not mean that we do not commit assisted suicide. We leave it up
to each and every doctor to create his/her own policy. I am not trying to get
a discussion going on this topic. But it is an easy one to refer to. And, the
situation actually goes to how our Constitution is written. We need the non
IDEA parent in the loop, also. The scales have turned since 1965.

SUBJECT:
Re:School Loses Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-25 14:52:00 EST
From:  RhoLaren

I used words like none, because the word fit in this instance. Usually does
not. I have read the provisions. AND, why are some people so against removing
this one objectionable little part of IDEA. We are talking about a minority
of students. Giving the school the right to REMOVE, no ifs, ands or buts, a
gun/drug toting, assaulting, sexual molesting student the same way the school
can and does the non IDEA student who is so out of control is not going to
impact on the majority of IDEA students. Why do so many people fight to keep
these children out of a place where they might get help? Why must we become
victims to their disruptions. This is so absurd. Change that part of the law.
period. Will not impact on too many, and will cause many people to react more
favorably toward IDEA. Why do you defend the sex molester? Why do you defend
the rights of the parents of this type of child who is leading others into
the dysfunction by his action, simply because his parents do not want him
removed. We do need victims' impact statements.

SUBJECT:  Re:Reply to Wheels2082   Date:  97-01-25 18:03:08 EST
From:  EvTexas

"...regular classroom where there is even a wider spread"
Ouch!  Sped teachers are VERY aware of the "wider spread".  We also know that
in the inclusive process the "spread" becomes less academically, and less
socially.  However, having taught in the so-called regular ed self-contained
classroom and the so-called special ed self-contained classroom, may I say
that a program that uses only one learning style is going to assist many
students, labeled or not, into failure.  I have been blessed to have taught
in several states and at all levels of education (adult to early childhood),
and have seen that the fostering of an individual to become a true life-long
learner becomes a joyful event for all when the teacher treats her/himself to
attempting other, more creative ways to introduce "lessons".  We must
remember that we have to continue to change and update our skills and
techniques in order to allow us to have a positive experience, too.

SUBJECT:
Re:What's being made law...   Date:  97-01-25 18:37:05 EST
From:  EvTexas

However, having taught in high school, middle school, and elementary school,
I am seeing this same
"I-don't-want-to-so-I-don't-have-to-I'll-call-my-mommy/daddy" at all levels.
Then when the parents show up screaming (literally), it gives a better idea
as to where the child has learned these techniques.  I'm very happy that the
majority of parents are not like this, and as a parent of a special needs
child (a senior, now), I have to focus on the parents who are supportive of
child and school.

SUBJECT:  Re:School Loses Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-25 21:30:37 EST
From:  Ratatat

<<AND, why are some people so against removing this one objectionable little
part of IDEA.>>

Sorry - you can't remove it.  It would have to be re-drafted with new wording
to provide the recourse you are seeking - which is a placement outside of the
original placement while a decision is being made.  If you look at the newly
drafted amendments that deal with this - it does just that.  So, I guess I
don't get why there is still complaining on this one.

<<Will not impact on too many, and will cause many people to react more
favorably toward IDEA. Why do you defend the sex molester? Why do you defend
the rights of the parents of this type of child ...>

It will impact the the child and the family who are the 'perbetrators."  And,
sorry - no one can selectively choose who gets their constitutional rights to
due process and who doesn't.  When I defend the rights of parents of violent
children to have appropriate procedures and regulations used to address their
problems... I am defending YOUR right to the same consitutional protections.
One for all and all for one...

SUBJECT:  Re:School Loses Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-25 21:34:27 EST
From:  Ratatat

<<I was not referring to IDEA only. One of the ways to think about something.
For example, people are now talking about assisted suicide. >>

Neither am I... I'm talking about rights derived directly from the
Constitution of the United States.  I think tho' I am understanding what you
are trying to say - that by choosing to remain neutral and not take
legislative action you believe it permits de facto laws to exist.  That may,
or may not be true.  That's a pretty broad discussion.  But, if you read the
amendments to IDEA that have been proposed to deal *specifically* with this
one narrow issue of violent students you will see that there will be an
active written regulation in IDEA to address your concerns.

BTW, I know all about the assisted suicide thing - I live in Michigan very
close to where Kevorkian has been busy.  The chief coroner for the county
where Dr. Death is the most busy is a very good friend of mine!

SUBJECT:
Re:School Loses Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-25 21:38:16 EST
From:  Ratatat

<<
Doesn't anyone think that by the time a child does the damage he was alleged
to have done, it was a little to late for the M team????? That is the point I
am getting at.>>

But, that *is* the whole point.  The child was showing behaviors before the
incident that went unaddresded.  The child was providing lots of not so
subtle messages that he had some major frustrations which were indicative of
someone with an emotional or learning disorder.  Since the school is clearly
obligated to pursue, identify and evaluate any child that they suspect has a
disability (a step of which should be a M team meeting). and did not... they
should is in violation of both Section 504 and IDEA's child find provisions.
The school went into the case already out of order because they had violated
the federal laws.

SUBJECT:  Re:School Loses Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-25 22:50:47 EST
From:  RhoLaren

I read the amendments to IDEA., and they are very specific. The very
specificity insures that the school will lose. There is something in the law
about the specific outweighing the general. I liked the main heading. Thought
it would bring both sides closer together. Then when I read all the
specifics, it became apparant that they negated the intent of the main
part.

SUBJECT:  Re:School Loses Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-25 22:53:39 EST
From:  RhoLaren

Let's see now. A child curses a little. The school addresses that.A child is
a little out of control. The school tries to address that. The child's
parents very often will not let the school do anything. And, up until this
time, the child has not done anything too out of the ordinary. How in
heaven's name can the school predict whether or not a child will 'lose' it
and throw a desk at another child, or kick a water pipe, or snip electrical
wires. You could argue that if he/she threw a desk and if the school
addressed the problem, that because they did not address the problem of the
child snipping electric wires, they were at fault.

SUBJECT:  Re:School Loses
Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-25 23:43:36 EST
From:  DVC Mom

My understanding of the recent ruling is that if the M-Team had met first and
were in agreement that the child's disruptive behavior was not the result of
ADD then they could have legally filed the juvenile petition as a part of an
M-Team decision.  The bottom-line is that they by-passed the M-Team process.


This recent hearing has created a lot of fireworks not only this board but
all over East Tennessee. I personally feel there are valid arguments on both
sides of this issue.  However, the general public's
reaction to this case is one of shock.  Most don't realize that IDEA offers
such protection to violent /disruptive students and they don't understand it
nor do they like it.  This is sure to have an impact on how TN's
representatives and senators vote on IDEA reauthorization.   IMHO, schools do
not have the resources to deal with the problems they are expected to handle
and they are fed up and are starting to retaliate.  I think part of Knox
County's purpose in appealing the case is to bring the problems they are
experiencing with IDEA  to the public in hopes of  promoting change.

SUBJECT:
Re:What legislation ....   Date:  97-01-26 07:04:51 EST
From:  Mittar

ALL parents Should have rights in ALL situtions?  Well, then what about the
rights of the parents of the kids who have no IDEA to protect them???

SUBJECT:
Re:What's being made law/ev   Date:  97-01-26 07:08:50 EST
From:  Mittar

I love a supportive parent!  They are not generally the ones DEMANDING things
that are somewhat excessive.  I'll go to the ends of the earth for them!
BUT...

It is the "screamers" that make me go home screaming at night.

SUBJECT:
Re:School Loses Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-26 07:17:38 EST
From:  Mittar

I have a problem with the concept that the "M-team" knows all.  There are
people on that team who have not dealt w/ a child to the extent of a parent
or a teacher.  And just what would that team have done? Come up w/ a"plan" to
intervene the next time the child has this particular behavior?  What if the
behavior changes, and changes again?  The "team" cannot provide a plan for
every possible behavior!  How many chances does the team get before there is
such extensive damage to either the child (by serving him in the
inappropriate setting) or the other students, teacher and school ( for
dealing w/ any physical or emotional damage)?

I agree that what has to happen is  "regular" parent(s) in the  loop to try
to make changes !

SUBJECT:  Re:School Loses Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-26 10:29:44 EST
From:  RhoLaren

Mittar,

Thank you for your coherent posting on the M-team concept. You are right. The
M -team probably cannot think of EVERY contingency. Children are too creative
for that. But the law as it is written, demands that the M-team (or whatever
it is called in your area) do such a thing. Read the IDEA. See if you do not
come to the same conclusions that I did. Remember, the devil is in the
details. That is how law is read, the details supercede the main body of that
part of the text.

SUBJECT:  Re:School Loses Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-26 10:46:53 EST
From:  Ratatat

<<And, up until this time, the child has not done anything too out of the
ordinary. How in heaven's name can the school predict whether or not a child
will 'lose' it and throw a desk at another child, or kick a water pipe, or
snip electrical wires. >>

None of us know the preceeding behaviors the child exhibited concerning the
court case in Tennessee.  I think it's a bad idea to project hypotheticals on
it.  My *guess* is that there were clear indications before the incident that
the child presented cause to be evaluated which were ignored by the school -
thus the courts decision against the school.

And seriously, I can think of no child who would give no clues of behavior
problems then suddenly do some of the things you suggest.  It helps to keep
the hypothetical presentations within the realm of reality - exaggerated
hypotheticals are not very convincing when dealing with a serious topic.

SUBJECT:
Re:What legislation ....   Date:  97-01-26 10:50:23 EST
From:  Ratatat

<<
ALL parents Should have rights in ALL situtions?  Well, then what about the
rights of the parents of the kids who have no IDEA to protect them???>>

See, I believe that all parents do have rights to due process - not just
parents of children with disabilities.  We, each of us, can't possibly build
a bubble around ourselves and say my rights exist here and you can't invade
them.  We do live in a complex society that demands some compromises.

However, in the case of a truly violent student who has put my child at risk?
I would file a complaint with the police department and pursue charges.  It's
would be my right to do so.

SUBJECT:  Re:School Loses Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-26 10:52:19 EST
From:  Ratatat

<<
I have a problem with the concept that the "M-team" knows all.  There are
people on that team who have not dealt w/ a child to the extent of a parent
or a teacher. >>

Remember, the school is supposed to involve a specialist in addressing the
child's problems.  If they don't have one on staff, they can access a
specialist consultant to advise.

SUBJECT:  Re:Caterization   Date:  97-01-26 11:12:23 EST
From:  Arloateach

Teachers can't refuse anything, no rights, but I said I certainlly would not
do it without a union rep present.  What is wrong with that?

SUBJECT:  Re:School
Loses Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-26 12:33:20 EST
From:  SusanS29

"What if the Knoxville student did nothing really out of the ordinary until
this incident?"

That is not what I concluded from what I read. This was the culmination of
building problems.

SUBJECT:  Re:What's being made law...   Date:  97-01-26 12:35:27 EST
From:  SusanS29

"c) unrealistic expectations from both students and parents as to what the
end result of Special Ed
   will be for their child."

Since in the last two school districts I taught in, virtually all the LD
students graduated from HS, and since virtually all of them went to trade
school, vocational school, junior college or four year college --

any parent who doesn't expect a good outcome has failed their child
miserably. Any student who doesn't have a chance to achieve this has been
cheated.

Any *district* who doesn't have this goal for *every single student with LD*
should shut down.

SUBJECT:  Re:What legislation ....   Date:  97-01-26 12:38:45 EST
From:  SusanS29

"A kid with an IEP brings a gun to school, oh no we can't expel him, it is
part of his handicapping disability"

Where I live, a student with IEP who brings a gun to school is suspended (not
expelled) pending whatever decisions are needed. We have options here. If you
don't have options where you are someone has dropped the ball.

SUBJECT:
Re:School Loses Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-26 12:41:10 EST
From:  SusanS29

"What we now call IDEA is really the EHA which has been around since 1965."

I couldn't agree with that. I taught before and after IDEA. IDEA brought HUGE
-- and badly-needed improvements to the law.

In 1967, when I did my first student teaching, there was very little public
special education.

The difference between 1969 and 1979 was astounding. EHA may have been a
predecessor, but it had no teeth, and special education was in a dismal state
-- especially for students in badly-run programs -- before IDEA.

SUBJECT:
Re:School Loses Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-26 12:43:28 EST
From:  SusanS29

"Doesn't anyone think that by the time a child does the damage he was alleged
to have done, it was a little to late for the M team????? That is the point I
am getting at.''

NO. Don't you see? It was a clear sign to meet, figure out the child's needs,
and *provide them.*

Too bad some damage was done. These things do happen, and to throw a troubled
child in juvie over it while *refusing* to address the other needs is nothing
short of barbarism.

It is, however, the situation we had before... IDEA.

SUBJECT:  Re:School Loses
Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-26 12:50:14 EST
From:  SusanS29

"Let's see now. A child curses a little. The school addresses that.A child is
a little out of control. The school tries to address that. The child's
parents very often will not let the school do anything. "

You don't know that this was the case.

" How in heaven's name can the school predict whether or not a child will
'lose' it and throw a desk at another child, or kick a water pipe, or snip
electrical wires."

Having taught hundreds of these children, there are *more signs.* Honest to
goodness. Why harp on this so?

I have had students who threw desks. There were already MAJOR problems with
those students.

But -- duh -- we already had plans in place to deal with such possible events
*before* they happened.

it can be done, and it can be done *better* without juvenile hall.

SUBJECT:
Re:School Loses Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-26 12:50:47 EST
From:  SusanS29

'I have a problem with the concept that the "M-team" knows all."

No one said that.

SUBJECT:  Re:School Loses Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-26 13:01:17 EST
From:  Mittar

Perhaps, no, CERTAINLY the M-team does not know all!  If it did, it would
have strings and strings of contingency plans.  It would sit in session 24
hours a day just waiting to create another plan or modification PRN.

All these meetings, all these plans, all this paperwork, all this
litigation....WHEN DO WE GET TO TEACH???



SUBJECT:  Re:What's being made lawSU..   Date:  97-01-26 13:07:06 EST
From:  Mittar

I do not pretend to know your experiences nor the students you've taught, but
they are different from the ones I have dealt w/ here.

The point I attempt  to make is that, there are some instances in which the
school can't wave a wand over the student and make everything ok, cover all
the bases, whatever. Some parents DO have expectations for their child that
are not realistic.  I can't fault the parents for wanting the best for their
child and I never meant to imply that.  But what is BEST???



SUBJECT:  Re:What's being made lawSU..   Date:  97-01-26 20:47:22 EST
From:  RhoLaren

Mittar,

One thing you must learn on these boards is this: when anyone disagrees with
the prevailing wisdom they tend to face heaps of insults. They try to discuss
things intelligently, come up against a blank wall of perceived "I cannot
understand what you could possibly be saying", and then are accused of being
worked up when defending their positions. It is really funny. The funny part
is when they accuse you of things you really think they are guilty of, but
think to highly of them to point out that reasonable people can disagree.
You see, Mittar. If you are in support of IDEA totally, you are passionately
involved and more power to you. If you disagree, you get worked up and it is
suggested that your mental health might be in question. Take it with a grain
of salt. These are people on a crusade. These are people who will accuse you
of not liking all students, but then again, will only support THEIR students.
They cannot believe that you might have been very thorough in your research
prior to daring to post in THEIR turf. I do expect to be disciplined for this
post. There are many disagreements within the community of advocates for the
disabled on the best way of delivering services to the constituents. But, you
would not know it from here. Here, you get party line stuff.  BTW, the staff
on my ward says my prognosis is very good and I will be out in a very short
time.

SUBJECT:  RE: Legis.Rho   Date:  97-01-26 21:17:34 EST
From:  Mittar

Thanks for the response and the advice!  I tell those I work w/ about this
posting daily and they would love to be able to have input!
I do love the fact that I am a teacher of Special Ed. kids, BUT ...
I don't love what Special ed has done to kids, teachers, parents, school
districts, etc.
There is logic to what legisaltion has set out to do, but there is injustice
in what has been carried out.   I see the logic and injustice EVERYDAY!
For the record, I do NOT agree w/ what the present legislation is. I want to
teach! I do not want paperwork, meetings, and the legal hassels that I have
now!  The law is too broad in its scope and needs refinement.  Violent kids
do not belong in a school w/ kids they can harm. Drugs should not be
accessible to those that can be harmed by them.  Yet, if a student is SED,
they are entitled to some sort of accessibility to what no one else is
allowed to have.

Perhaps if people disagree w/ what I am saying, I should be labeled , and my
expression would thus be "entitled".



SUBJECT:  Re:RE: Legis.Rho   Date:  97-01-26 23:43:43 EST
From:  DVC Mom

I think we would all be naive if we didn't admit there are serious problems
with IDEA.  Our legislators are aware of the difficulties and if you haven't
written your House representative and your Senators then I strongly urge you
today.   If you haven't read the proposed changes then please go to this
site:

http://www.house.gov/eeo/ideainfo.htm

SUBJECT:  Re:RE: Legis.Rho   Date:  97-01-27 00:20:05 EST
From:  RhoLaren

I did read and I did send.

SUBJECT:  Re:RE: Legis.Rho   Date:  97-01-27 08:58:19 EST
From:  Mars000210

Hello, it is so hard as a parent to read these posts at times. I try and put
myself in everyones shoes. IDEA has been my friend so to speak. With out it
my children would not have been happy or productive in school. The laws have
protected my children and thus they are happy and productive in school. Have
I had unreasonable expectations from my interpertation of IDEA, probobly at
times. As a parent (non lawyer, non education specialist, non teacher) it is
difficult to read the laws then have to read your school districts
interpertaitons of IDEA and not really know what is unreasonable or
reasonable. I have become better as the years have gone by. The laws will
always evolve, nothing is stagnant in our society. Sometimes they are changed
for the good of our children, sometimes changes occur because money is the
issue, and changes  occur because they are needed. Please remember the
parents don't always have the backgrounds that you do. That their
interpertaions , as yours are, come from the desire to help.

SUBJECT:  Re:RE:
Legis.Rho   Date:  97-01-27 10:05:49 EST
From:  ALauritzen

Well said Mars000210!!!!

SUBJECT:  Re:RE: Legis.Rho   Date:  97-01-27 14:29:41 EST
From:  RhoLaren

Mars,

Believe it or not, I am not against IDEA. And, I have posted suggestions to
parents, probably archived. I do think that protecting rapists and gunpuppies
under the guise of IDEA is stretching it abit. That has been my major
complaint. Have worked with too many great IDEA parents, and non-IDEA parents
to ever be down on parents. AND, sometimes I have tried the "read between the
lines of what I am saying" to help them get access to services they did not
know existed, and  I would have been in trouble for mentioning.

SUBJECT:
Re:What's being made lawSU..   Date:  97-01-27 20:56:12 EST
From:  SusanS29

"BTW, the staff on my ward says my prognosis is very good and I will be out
in a very short time."

(smile!)

But in all fairness a post like that makes the poster sound as intolerant of
alternate views as the people they're criticizing. Just a thought...

SUBJECT:
Relief in Michigan   Date:  97-01-28 23:13:10 EST
From:  Wheels2082

In Govenor John Engler's state of the state address, education isn't being
cut concerning birth to 26 years of age. Last year he mentioned this, now it
is safe. At least for the next fisical year, disabled people can be prepared
to work in the community in a variety of jobs.

Dawn Saur (Wheels2082)
Online Teacher
Special Education ADVOCATE

SUBJECT:  Just wondering...   Date:  97-01-29 18:06:12 EST
From:  Mittar

As we read about a local issue concerning a parent who did not want their
child placed ( at school district expense) in a private school, what does a
parent have come to a hearing with?

The parent says that their autistic child who has bitten an electrician at
school, caused injury to a classroom aides shoulder, and displayed other
behaviors which caused school officals to feel the public school was not the
appropriate,  placement should be maintained in a his regular school, no
matter what the cost to the district.

The parents say he never causes a probem when they take him to the mall or to
a restaruant.
My question is what is the differnce between what the parents do and what the
school does?

Who has the (pardon the expression) burden of proof?

SUBJECT:  Re:Just
wondering...   Date:  97-01-29 19:22:32 EST
From:  Ratatat

<<As we read about a local issue concerning a parent who did not want their
child placed ( at school district expense) in a private school, what does a
parent have come to a hearing with?>>

It's not about burden of proof.  It's about due process.  It's derived
directly from the 14th Amendment to the Consitution.  After the hearing (step
one in due process), both parties have the right to appeal.  The next stage
would be to court, and so on...  At each step of due process, the hearing
officer (or judge) will listen to the evidence and pass judgement.

SUBJECT:
Re:School Loses Court Case!!   Date:  97-01-30 01:16:45 EST
From:  BLiving769

Thank you, Ratatat, these words or so true.  Everyone should order a video
from CDR Communications, Inc.,  the video is about a reseach study that the
U. S. Department of Justice did on reading failures and juvenile delinquency.
The video is called "Retarding America - The Imprisonment of Potential."  The
company's address is:

CDR Communications, Inc.
9310-B Old Keene Mill Road
Burke, VA   22015
Phone No. 703-569-3400
Cost $5.00 plus s.& h.

I keep reading where parent have all the rights under IDEA.  When I read this
I have to wonder what state that these people live.  I live in Mississippi
and the parents really do have hardly any say so about anything concerning
special education.  Parents walk into IEP meetings and the IEPs are already
written and waiting for the parent's signature.  They write the word draft on
the front of the IEP and mark through this after the parent signs.  Parents
do not have true participation in helping to write their child's IEPs or
making decisions concerning their education..

SUBJECT:  Re:School Loses Court
Case!!   Date:  97-01-30 13:50:34 EST
From:  RhoLaren

That is terrible. They will continue to do it until parents have the courage
to stand up and say, no, we are to do this together. Coming armed with a copy
of the relevant parts of the legislation would help.

SUBJECT:  Re:Just
wondering...   Date:  97-01-30 17:15:25 EST
From:  Mittar

The use of the phrase"burden of proof" may not have been quite accurate.
However,  can the parent possibly be used as the "resource" or "modification"
to the problematic behavior?  After all if there is something the parents are
using that can benifit the child in the educational setting, wouldn't it be
useful for the school to know about it?

The home and the school are, after all two different settings, yet they both
play an integral part in the child's education.

Why is that NOT part of due process?

SUBJECT:  Re:Just wondering...   Date:  97-01-30 23:04:07 EST
From:  Ratatat

<<The home and the school are, after all two different settings, yet they
both play an integral part in the child's education.

Why is that NOT part of due process?>>

Mittar, the procedures established under IDEA are designed to do just what
you are suggesting... that both the school and parents come together as a
team to work together to built an appropriate individualized education plan
for the child.

But, when that breaks down and they can no longer agree or communicate with
each other, then it does to due process.

Due process is sort of like going to court and having a judge hear the two
side of the disagreement and deciding on what he hears how to best fulfill
the obligations set down by IDEA to a FAPE and to meet the child's
needs.

SUBJECT:  Differences and discipline   Date:  97-01-31 11:41:57 EST
From:  Truman8

As I was reading posts for the past weeks or so, I felt like I was on a
roller coaster!  I wonder if some of the thoughts expressed by arloateach and
her frustrations are starkly different from the thoughts expressed by others
because education is simply not the same thing everywhere.

Obviously, states and local boards deal differently with their
responsibilities, but what I really mean is that schools in Trenton, NJ
versus schools in rural NJ are almost like different institutions.  I would
be interested in hearing what type of school some of the people who post
teach in.  I think that might clarify some of the absolutes we all throw
around about IDEA and parent rights.

This is especially true when we start talking about weapons, discipline,
suspensions.  I am not altogether sure that  we are all talking about the
same problem and perhaps this is why some views seem not only extreme, but
bitter.  What is your story?  Let's try and figure out where we are all
coming from, so that we can relate with more understanding and less anger.

I'll start.. for the most part i see IDEA from the doors of an inner city
school whichs looks more like a zoo than a school.  The district is disabled,
that can't be changed readily, so do you have to make the kids disabled to
get them any sort of education at all?  What do you do (i mean this
rhetorically) when a student gets sent home day after day after day
(suspension without any wrong behaviors) with no idea when he or she is to
return?  This does not seem to be the same question that arloateach and
others are working on.  Perhaps your school district is not disabled.
Your turn...

SUBJECT:  Re:Differences and disciplin   Date:  97-01-31 13:11:47 EST
From:  RhoLaren

Truman8

Thank you. I have thought the same thing. Sometimes I think we are referring
to vastly different environments. We need to recognize that not every school
system does things the same. That when we criticize, or applaud, we are
essentially reflecting our experiences. Sometimes we have read about
implementations in many sections of the country, and this is important, too,
as it shows a broader picture than our own particular situation. Also, you
are very perceptive in noticing that different types of school districts
might implement laws differently depending on their financial status and the
percentage of needy students in that district. Nationwide averages do not
really reflect the percentage of students in any one particular district, or
school within that district. Unfortunately, the distribution of students, all
along the IDEA and non-IDEA spectrum is not equal.

SUBJECT:  Re:Differences and
disciplin   Date:  97-01-31 16:45:34 EST
From:  Truman8

RhoLaren,

Tell all about that school you work in!!!  Are you a country mouse or a city
mouse etc....

SUBJECT:  Re:Differences and disciplin   Date:  97-01-31 22:03:20 EST
From:  RhoLaren

Love it. I was, am retired now, a country mouse. Was a city mouse for
awhile.

SUBJECT:  NPND Friday News #28-Part 1   Date:  97-02-01 09:19:21 EST
From:  ALauritzen

IDEA Hearing  in Senate

On January 29, 1997, the Senate Committee on Labor and Human Resources held a
hearing on S. 216, the bill to reauthorize IDEA. Following are the opening
statements from Senator Jeffords and Senator Harkin.
---------------------------------------------------------
The Honorable Jim Jeffords Opening Statement

The hearing is called to order. Good morning. This hearing on the Individuals
with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) is the first hearing of the Labor
Committee in the 105th Congress. I put IDEA first on the Committee schedule
because its reauthorization is important to me, the Members of this
Committee, the Majority Leader, the Senate, our colleagues in the House, the
administration, but most of all, it is important to this generation and
future generations of children. In fact I would argue that a successful
reauthorization is vital to America's children.

Providing a world-class public education for all of our children is a
contract between the government and the citizens of this country. I want to
see that contract strengthened, not broken. I recognize the need to educate
the "whole child." But the bottom line is that when it comes time to graduate
from high school, we must make sure that our students, all our students, have
the skills to either pursue postsecondary education or training, or get a
good job, and be contributing members of our communities. This means that
educators and parents work as partners. This means schools have the
resources, tools, and flexibility to do what we expect of them.

My message to you today is simple: this nation is facing an educational
crisis in which 50 percent  of our high school graduates are functionally
illiterate and not prepared to enter the workplace. If we are going to
maintain our economic standing as a nation we must do much better. We must
make every effort to offer every child a quality education-those with
disabilities, those without disabilities, and those at risk of failing.

We introduced this legislation so that everyone would have a common frame of
reference. however, this legislation is not perfect and it can and will be
improved. The bill and this hearing are the beginning of the process, not the
end. There are still issues to be resolved. Your testimony will help us sort
them out.

IDEA was originally enacted in 1975. I was a Member of the House then and
participated in its development. It provided one set of ground rules that
replaced a patchwork of over 25 court decisions that had generated
considerable uncertainty about rights and responsibilities. After 22 years, I
think it is appropriate to acknowledge that schools have changed, the range
of disabilities seen in schools have changed, our expectations for children
with disabilities have changed, and the expectations we place on each other
as educators and parents have changed.

The writing is on the wall. I f we don't make needed changed to IDEA now,
based on common sense, school districts and parents will increasingly turn to
the courts to get answers. School  districts will do so in hope of getting
relief from or clarification of their responsibilities. Parents will do so in
hope of securing services that they believe their child needs. Since the
genesis of IDEA lay in avoiding litigation, true to its intent to do so
today, we have an opportunity through the reauthorization of IDEA to ensure
the emphasis will shift once again and remain on educating  children, well
into the next century.

To those who say to us, "do nothing," I say think again. Please work with us.
To those who say "no  good will come from a reauthorization and civil rights
of children will be diminished," I say not under my stewardship. To those who
have the inclination to argue for alternative, divisive provisions, when
consensus is at hand, I say you have lost focus, you have forgotten the
children and their teachers.

SUBJECT:  NPND Friday News #28-Part 2   Date:  97-02-01 09:21:51 EST
From:  ALauritzen

At this point, those of you who don't trust us must talk with us. With
communication comes understanding; with understanding comes respect; with
respect comes partnership; through partnership comes solutions; and through
solutions comes a shared commitment to educate all of America's children to
be their best.
---------------------------------------------------------
The Honorable Tom Harkin Opening Statement

The purpose of today's hearing is to discuss ways to improve educational
results for children with  disabilities served under the Individuals with
Disabilities Education Act.

More than 20 years ago president Ford signed into law P.L. 94-142. On that
day, we lit a beacon of hope for millions of children with disabilities and
their families. We exclaimed that the days of exclusion, segregation, and
denial of educational opportunity of disabled children were over in this
country. We made a promise that children with disabilities would receive the
educational opportunities necessary to enable them to lead proud, productive
lives in the American mainstream.

Over the past 20 years we have witnessed considerable progress. But, we also
know our work is not over-we know we can and must achieve better educational
outcomes for children with disabilities. We still have promises to keep.

Today, we start anew our journey toward enactment of a bill reauthorizing
IDEA. I would like to take a few minutes to share with all of you the
principles that will guide us as we embark on this journey.

First, our efforts must continue the long tradition of bipartisanship. Every
effort should also be made to secure a broad-based consensus among all
parties concerned with the implementation of the legislation.

Second, we must recognize what IDEA is and what it is not.

IDEA is a civil rights statute. it establishes the "floor of opportunity"
guaranteed by the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment to the United
States Constitution. IDEA includes a number of procedural safeguards and
protections that are modeled on other civil rights statutes. The parity
between IDEA and these other civil rights laws must be preserved.

According to the Congress and the CBO, IDEA is not an unfunded federal
mandate. The IDEA is a grant program providing assistance to school districts
to help them meet their constitutional obligations. We must increase our
assistance to local school districts and ensure that the increases are not
offset by reductions by states.

Third, any bill we enact must be consistent with and enhance the ability of
local school districts to improve educational outcomes and achieve the
National Educational Goals for children with disabilities.

Fourth, we must abide by the old maxim, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." We
must determine what, if any provision is "broke" on the basis of facts and
sound educational policy; not on the basis of fear, pernicious mythologies,
or political expediency. Under no circumstance should we legislate by
anecdote.

If we conclude that something is "broke," we must ensure that the "fix"
comports with the nature and extent of the problem. We cannot adopt
amendments that will have the effect of increasing the likelihood of
exclusion, segregation, and denial of educational services of disabled
children.

Fifth, we must foster meaningful partnerships between parents, disabled
children, and educators; confrontation is in nobody's interest.

Sixth, we must strengthen the federal role in personnel preparation, parent
training and programs designed to ensure that services to children with
disabilities remain state-of-the-art.

In closing, let me share with you the advice I received from the director of
special education in my  home state of Iowa on the approach we should take in
reauthorizing IDEA: "While simple and cheap solutions to complex problems
seem to be in vogue among some elements of our society, I would hope that the
Committee would take a more thoughtful long-range view of the issues."

SUBJECT:
NPND Friday News Part 3   Date:  97-02-01 09:23:30 EST
From:  ALauritzen

I intend to follow this advice and I am confident that my colleagues will do
the same. Thank you.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BALANCED BUDGET AMENDMENT VOTE  SOON

The Senate Judiciary Committee will act on the Balanced Budget Amendment
(BBA) to the US Constitution on Thursday, January 30, 1997. The Senate is
expected to begin debate on the amendment next week, and hold a final vote
some time in February depending on vote counts). House Speaker Newt Gingrich
(R-GA) has announced that the House will hold its BBA vote on February 26th.
A two-thirds vote in each house of Congress is required to pass a
Constitutional amendment-the results of such a vote are still very much in
doubt, and the Clinton Administration has expressed its opposition to the
BBA.

If the BBA becomes a part of the Constitution, the impact on children and
families will be disastrous-making it harder for the federal government to
respond during times of high unemployment and recession; making it easier to
cut programs for poor children and families, while making it harder to close
tax loopholes for wealthy individuals and corporations; and making it more
difficult for the federal government to invest in children through proven
programs like Head Start, WIC and immunizations.

Please call and meet with local Representatives and Senators and their staff
in order to convey your OPPOSITION to the Balanced Budget Amendment.

Thanks to the Children's Defense Fund Legislative Update for this report.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Annual ACCH Conference
The 32nd Annual Conference of the Association for the Care of Children's
Health (ACCH) will be held at the Washington, DC Renaissance Hotel on May
25-28. The theme for the year's conference is Sharing a Common Vision for
Healthcare: Children and Families First. Clinicians, administrators,
educators, researchers, chaplains, policy-makers, pediatric facility
designers, family members, and others are invited to register. For a
preliminary conference program or further information, contact Innovisions
Management Reservations at 800-899-0573.


SUBJECT:  NPND Friday News-Part 4   Date:  97-02-01 09:24:39 EST
From:  ALauritzen

Bright Futures for Families
 The National Parent Network on Disabilities is sharing the lead with Family
Voices in the Bright Futures for Families initiative in collaboration with
the National Center for Education in Maternal and Child Health and the
Maternal and Child Health Bureau.

The purpose of this important project is to produce practical materials,
developed by families for families, which will: ╖ Help families to form
partnerships with their providers and to advocate for the health care needs
of their child  Prepare families to actively participate in health
supervision and the promotion of healthy habits. ╖ Provide valuable
information about child development and what to expect as a child matures to
adolescence ╖ Share tips, hints, and stories based on the experiences of a
variety of families .

These family materials will be derived from Bright Futures: Guidelines for
Health  Supervision of Infants, Children, and Adolescents, published in 1994
as a comprehensive resource to help health professionals, families, and
communities more effectively promote the health and well-being of our
nation's children and adolescents.  As we develop these materials, we want to
hear from you!! We'd love your input not only on how to make these materials
beneficial, but on how to make them unique. Over the next few weeks, we will
be including questions to solicit your ideas in shaping this fabulous
resource. Please take a moment to answer the following questions, and then
return this to NPND (Fax:[phone]; e-mail: [e-mail]). Thank you for
your help.
-----------------------------------
1. Describe your relationship to the children you care for.

    Mother             Father             Grandparent             Health Professional

    Child Advocacy Professional          Other ___________________

2. Where do you get ideas for promoting healthy development of your
child?(Please circle all that apply)                 Books
        Magazines
        Newspapers
        Family/friends
        Doctor/nurse
        TV
        Brochures or flyers in the pharmacy or doctor's office
        Other  ____________________________________

3. Is your child's doctor your primary source of information about your
child's development? (e.g. temper tantrums, toilet training, school
preparation, peer pressure)

        Yes            No

4. What other source(s) do you turn to? (Please circle all that apply)
        Nurses
        Bookstores/library
        Internet
        Family/Friends
        Magazines
        Teacher
        Other ______________________________________


SUBJECT:  FYI   Date:  97-02-01 16:19:59 EST
From:  ALauritzen

The Senate version of the Reauthorization is on the internet. S. 216

SUBJECT:
Friday News No. 30 Part 1   Date:  97-02-14 12:55:52 EST
From:  ALauritzen

The Friday News, a weekly news bulletin from the National Parent Network on
Disabilities
February 14, 1997                Number 30
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Senators Send Special Ed Letter to President

Following is the text of a letter to President Clinton dated February 11,
1997.
We would like to congratulate you on your continued efforts to focus this
country's attention on the
critical issue of education.  As you are aware, the Senate's attention has
also been centered on this
area ,with both Republicans and Democrats proposing education packages in
the first days of the
105th Congress.

Today, we ask that you highlight an education issue of great importance to
this
country: special education.  The federal government, under P.L. 94-142, has
said that local schools
must educate children with disabilities.  This was an excellent decision to
ensure that special needs
children are educated in the least restrictive and most mainstream
environment possible.

Under the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, the federal
government is required to pay
40% of the average cost of educating special needs children.  Contributing
to the cost is only fair,
since it was the federal government that insisted that local schools
undertake this responsibility.
Today, however, the federal government is not living up to that promise and
instead, is funding 7%
of the bill.

At the local level, we have seen a shift in resources as a result of the
federal
government's failure to meet its responsibility.  Since the federal
government is unwilling to pay its
promised 40%, local property taxpayers make up the difference.  As a result,
Washington has created an inappropriate and unfair conflict between children
with disabilities and
children without.  We owe it to these children to live up to our
responsibility and resolve this
conflict.

Mr. President, you have proposed more than S40 billion in new education
funding, without making
any attempt to fully fund special education.  The federal government's share
remains at an
unacceptable 7% under your budget, We should live up to our existing
obligations under the law
before we pursue new, expensive initiatives.

Senate Republicans have proposed adding $10 billion over the next seven
years to fully fund
special education.  We ask that you show your support for special education
by  joining with our
efforts to begin fully funding special education.
         Sincerely,
s:     Judd Gregg             Susan M. Collins        Pat Roberts
        Bob Smith            Slade Gorton        Jeff Sessions
        John Ashcroft        Larry Craig        Trent Lott
    Jim Jeffords        Conrad Burns        Gordon Smith
    Dan Coats        Thad Cochran        Bill Frist
    Dirk Kempthorne    Kit Bond        Chuck Grassley
    John Warner        James Inhofe        Paul Coverdell
    Michael Enzi        Spencer Abraham    Mike DeWine

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

SUBJECT:
Friday News #30, Part 2   Date:  97-02-14 12:58:20 EST
From:  ALauritzen

Congressional Leaders Present Plan

Stakeholders working for the Reauthorization of IDEA gathered in the Capitol
on February 12th to
listen to Chairman Jim Jeffords and Chairman Bill Goodling  present a plan
to bring all interested
parties together to gain a consensus on issues concerning IDEA . In an
unprecedented move, the
leaders unveiled a plan to take IDEA "out of the normal political process"
and to work towards a
new consensus. All leaders from the special education community and the
regular education groups
are invited to participate. Next Thursday, February 20th, the groups are
invited to begin the
process. The goal is to set aside 1 month to work together, find common
ground and have a bill that
would be "acceptable" to all. A number of the leaders, especially those on
the disability side
questioned if this is possible. Sen. Jeffords and Representative Goodling
were adamant regarding
the need for the Reauthorization. They stated that all voices will be heard
and the process will be
"as inclusive as humanly possible."  If this effort fails, Congress will
return to the normal process
of Reauthorization in the House and Senate Committees.

Debra Johnson, President , and Patty Smith, Executive Director of the NPND
met with Senator
Jeffords and Representative Goodling to convey the NPND IDEA Position
Statement. They
presented a critique of  S216 and reported that the NPND Legislative
Committee will have the
critique of HR 5 this week.  NPND will keep you posted.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------


SUBJECT:  Re:Friday News #30, Part 2   Date:  97-02-14 20:29:55 EST
From:  R u Niz

Thank you, again, for keeping us updated!!

SUBJECT:  Nd: FAPE case for col. paper   Date:  97-02-20 16:22:53 EST
From:  SLR013

Hi there,
   I'm a student at Rowan College and I need a case I can study for a college
paper.  I picked the FAPE area.  If there is any info anyone can point me in
the direction of specific court case names or areas of the WWW I can look at,
please let me know.  You can respond to [e-mail].

Thank you,
Susan

SUBJECT:  A Question /Special Edu. Laws   Date:  97-02-21 20:46:17 EST
From:  Delila6969

Can anyone tell me where I can find the laws pretaining to  bus
transportation of mentally and/or physically handicapped students, such as
door to door pick-up, waiting for authorized adult to meet child before
leaving, etc.?  e-mail me please Lynette100 AOL.

SUBJECT:  Re:A Question
/Special Edu.    Date:  97-02-22 22:25:10 EST
From:  Wheels2082

According to law, if the district provides busing to students, they can't
discriminate based on a physical disability. That is according to section 504
of the Rehabilative Act. In plain English, if the state or district provides
bus service, they can't block access based on disability.

Dawn Saur (Wheels2082)
Online teacher
Special Education ADVOCATE

SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  97-03-05 19:09:19 EST
From:  PA532

I second your message.  Let's spend our money on kids and not lawyers!

SUBJECT:
TBI - TO:DAWN SP.ED.AVOCATE   Date:  97-03-16 11:48:12 EST
From:  XZZU

Haveing a TBI child who has enterd the public school system in 8th grade
(repeateing) has had
testing done out side of the system, which states out-patient for Ed. The
system also tested her
but didnot state out-patient rehb. for Ed.The system did not use the same
tests as the Rehb. for TBI used.The EIP report i did not sign because i do
not agree. I am submitting letter on 4-18-97
of my reasons.I also submitted letter to the school that she needed a
complete nuro. eval. done
for phyical problems.( which is out of state.) that can not be done in our
area.I donot have any one who can speak for my child except myself. I do not
know what is next, the whole process
is over my head and i donot want to make a mistake.I have a copy of Parental
Rights in Sp. Ed.
but as I said it is overwhelling to me, and I dont understand the process.

I am in Richmond,Va. area.                what should I do? I canot afford a
lawyer.
     there is not an out-patient rehab. in our area either, the closest one
is about 100 miles radius
of my area for childern. What should I do?

SUBJECT:  Re: TBI - TO:DAWN SP.ED.AVOC   Date:  97-03-16 13:59:40 EST
From:  Mars000210

Have you thought about contacting a parent support group and explaining the
situation and ask if they could provide you with an advocate to help you sort
through the maze you are in. The medical community and the school system view
your child in different terms. The school is only allowed to view your child
from a acedemic view and conversly the medical commuinty is only concerned
with your childs neurological and physical situation. The view don't always
match. You as a parent must be having a difficult time, and rightly so. It's
hard enough for us that only deal with just one aspect of a system you are
dealing with two at the same time. One group that you can contact is Parents
Place, I only have the phone for my area in Md, but if you call there they
can put you in contact with someone for your area. The phone number is (410)
712-0900 or you can E-mail them [e-mail]. They can a least guide you
on your way. It is a free service.

SUBJECT:  Re: TBI - TO:DAWN SP.ED.AVOC   Date:  97-03-16 23:24:48 EST
From:  Wheels2082

Under Federal Law, they have to provide services your child. In most
likelihood, they are ignoring the facts thanks to the costs involved or
because of the evaluator's report. Are they prvoding services which would be
beneifcial or are ignoring the problem entirely? Both are devistating to say
the least to the both of you.
In the e-mail, I'm going to e-mail you, it has informaiton which will break
down the information you need. Recommend reading the readings designated 1, 2
and 4.

Dawn Saur (Wheels2082)
Online Teacher
Special Education ADVOCATE

SUBJECT:  Re: Info on Special Ed   Date:  97-03-23 20:05:17 EST
From:  HUGGIE3

I'm a student new to Special Education and would appreciate any information
concerning the history of Special Ed, legislative actions, terms/definitions,
impact on education, and issues
under discussion today (inclusion, etc).  Any help would be greatly
appreciated.  Info can be left here or at my e-mail address: [e-mail]


SUBJECT:  Survey in Texas   Date:  97-03-23 22:26:08 EST
From:  Mtmfam

Critical issues document being formed in Texas. The Texas Education Agency
has given a grant to Education Service Centers I, II and III to study the
issues that surround the topic of aversive and non aversive behavior
management interventions with students with disabilities in Texas public
schools.  A special web site has been created to take your comments. The
address is:
http///www2.esc3.tenet.edu/bms/          The deadline for the survey is April
25, 1997.  Please visit the address and give your thoughts.

SUBJECT:  At - Risk
Students   Date:  97-03-26 20:06:03 EST
From:  SeaBed

I am currently involved in a Sp.Ed. program for E.D. High School students.
One of our greatest stumbling blocks has been attendance.  I would like any
input as to how other programs deal with truancy.  Specifically, how failure
to attend effects appropriate placement in a Sp.Ed. program.  Should these
students be placed in a more restictive environment, i.e. an out of district
placement, which they will likely refuse to attend?

SUBJECT:  Re:At - Risk
Students   Date:  97-03-26 22:05:02 EST
From:  MarRigby

SeaBed:
One way may be to apply for some type of grant that will combine a Sp. Ed.
program with a paid vocational opportunity. For instance, instead of
requiring an ED student to attend a 6 hr. school day, cut it to 1/2 or 2/3
day and provide money-making opportunities for the remainder of the day.
Students who are truant may be more enticed to attend school knowing they
will earn money for their efforts. And of course the job is contingent upon
their effort and/or achievement in the academic portion of the day.

Marilyn

SUBJECT:  Re:A Question /Special Edu.    Date:  97-03-28 09:13:49 EST
From:  Mexi

Student's with disabilities have to be provided transportation, but laws on
transportation to vary from state to state as to the type of transportation
provided, etc.  This has always been a difficult issue in our state--some
kids are the bus for a very long time. Then the school wonders why they are
so tired or can't "attend" to school work!!  School districts are required to
make accomodations under 504, but the phrase is 'reasonable accomodations.'
So it can get sticky when a district is very rural and they "claim" they are
doing the best they can.
Also, we, personally,  had a very unfortunate incident regarding the use of
contracted transportation by our school district--in the name of taxi
drivers--who were transporting our kids to a special school outside district.
The cab company claimed the drivers met standards, but it turned out, after a
sorry incident, that they did not.  A group of us lobbied our state
transportation personnel to get that section of the law changed--and we did.

I would suggest that you call your state dept. of education and see exactly
how they regulate transportation for spec ed.  IDEA and 504 say one thing,
but it amazing how individual states get around the issue.  Good Luck.

SUBJECT:
Re:NPND Friday News #28-Part 1   Date:  97-03-28 09:32:02 EST
From:  Mexi

This is extremely valuable.  Thank you for taking the time to post this.

SUBJECT:
Where to go from here   Date:  97-03-29 15:37:17 EST
From:  GM RTIII

After a 2 year go around with the psy. at my daughter's high school( Buena
High in Ventura, California) and refusing to test her.  I contacted the State
of Calif Sp. Ed and they found the school district "out of compliance"
Title 34,Code of Federal Regulations, section 300.505-Failure to notify
complainants of their due process hearing rights
Education Code section 56302-failure to assess the student for eligiblitiy
and placement in a special education program
Education Code, Part 30, Chapter 4-Failure to implement identification and
referral, assessment, instuctional planning implemention and services,
procedures and guidelines.
I want to know if I have enough to go for a law suit against the school
district and how do I go about doing this.  The 2 years have been a night
mare for both myself and my daughter.  Any suggestion will be helpfull.
Thanks GMRTIII


SUBJECT:  Re:Where to go from here   Date:  97-03-29 19:32:16 EST
From:  Parsons4U

A law suit may not help your daughter get what you need.  Parents do have
rights and you do have the right for Due Process.  You might want to contact
TASK and have an advocate help you into the process.  There is also a book
(Crown or nearly any book store)  that is specifically on Parent's Rights,
Due Process, and following the IEP process  step by step.  They do have to
test your child within 50 days of your WRITTEN request!

SUBJECT:  Re:Where to go
from here   Date:  97-03-29 23:14:38 EST
From:  Ratatat

<There is also a book (Crown or nearly any book store)  that is specifically
on Parent's Rights, Due Process, and following the IEP process  step by step.
>

Can you share with us the name of the book and the authors?

Thanks.

SUBJECT:  Re:Where to go from here   Date:  97-03-30 20:10:01 EST
From:  COBEL

What were you wanting your daughter tested for?  It is the responsibility of
the child study team at each school to determine if a child warrants testing
after 45 days of intervention.  A psych should not be the only one
determining if your daughter is to be tested, and once tested, eligibility
cannot be determined by one person but a multidisciplinary team.

SUBJECT:
re:Where do we go from here   Date:  97-03-31 13:37:22 EST
From:  GM RTIII

 Re my daughter's history: My daughter started to have difficutlity in 10th
grade, failing classes. A Spanish teacher(she was repeating  Spanish) noted
that she could have a LD, she notified me and the school psy.  I then
requested her to be tested.  The school psy said she didn't seem to have a LD
but maybe was taking classes over her ability and if I really wanted her
tested to take her to the junior college and have her tested . (Out of
compliance)We went through the college's process of enrolling her in the
college and also a learning skills class,sitting in class for 15 hrs (3 hrs
per week for 5 week) then was tested.  She has a signifiant cognitive
processing LD.  Went back to the H.S. and they now wanted to test her.( In
compliance) We refused and wanted services for our daughter based on the
college tests(They sent us there in the first place).(out of compliance for
no services rendered).  During the summer she met with a LD tutors we found
on our own,(after all this the school paid us back) our daughter was taking
summer school.  In Sept she wanted to be in the resourse class for
"studyhall" she was refused because she didn't have an IEP.  I met with the
vice principal and got her in as a teachers assistant and agreed to have her
tested.  She now has a IEP and is meeting weekly with a speech pathogist to
help with vocab.  Her test at the college showed a IQ of 105 with cognitive
process disability. The H.S. said she didn't have a L.D. but was low IQ 86
and did have problems with vocab.  It was then that we contacted the State of
Calif.  They were out of compiance for: (1)Failure to notify complaints of
their due process hearing rights. (2)Failure to assess the student for
eligibility and placement in a special education program.(3) Failure to
implement identification and referral, asessment, instructional planning
implementation and services, procedures and guidelines.  I want to take the
school didtrict to court if I have a good case so this doesnt happen again.
We have 2 other friends who's children were refused testing also, one had her
child test by a private psy( school psy refusd to test and told them to go to
private psy, since child has to be 16 to be tested by college) and the second
has not had child tested can't afford private psy testing and too young for
college. First friend after what I found out got 1/2 reimbersment for private
psy test.  Any suggestions to take to court.

SUBJECT:  Re:re:Where do we go from
he   Date:  97-03-31 17:50:02 EST
From:  Ratatat

<I want to take the school didtrict to court if I have a good case so this
doesnt happen again.  We have 2 other friends who's children were refused
testing also, one had her child test by a private psy( school psy refusd to
test and told them to go to private psy, since child has to be 16 to be
tested by college) and the second has not had child tested can't afford
private psy testing and too young for college. First friend after what I
found out got 1/2 reimbersment for private psy test.  Any suggestions to take
to court.>

You can go to the Reference section of AOL and look in the West's Legal
Director and locate a few names of lawyers near you who specialize in either
education law or civil rights laws.

Only a lawyer can tell you if you have a suit.  Documentation, solid
documentation, is key.  If you have the documentation, and the other parents
to do then maybe you can pursue a class action suit for discrimination
(blanket) against individuals with disabilities under Section 504.  But,
because this is discrimination that is "administered" by the institution
there is another law that comes to play.  It's a HUGE civil rights law of
1983 which has to do with the *planned* denial of a citizens constitutional
rights by a government employee.

SUBJECT:  Re:re:Where do we go from here   Date:  97-03-31 21:23:55 EST
From:  EMOBIL

Talk about out of compliance.  One of the most litigated areas in special ed
are procedural safeguard violations and it soundls like you have a bunch.
The school systems psychologist should have gone over the results provides by
the college, and if all the necessary eligibility requirements were contained
in the report they should have used these results to aid in deciding
eligibility for LD.   Once eligibility was determined and the school said
your daughter was LD, how long did it take for them to develop the IEP.
There should have been a 30 day max.      At the law conference I just attended
it provided a book that says A parent has the right to an independent
educational evaluation at public expense if the parent disagrees with the
evaluation obtained by the public agency.  Your daughter is actually the one
that may want to bring suit since it was her free and appropriated education
that was denied.

SUBJECT:  Re:re:Where do we go from he   Date:  97-04-01 01:16:13 EST
From:  Mars000210

Another route you may want to concider is to file formal complaints with OCR
and with the fedreal branch in Wahington at their Office of special
Education. If you are looking to improve the schools complience for other
parents this is a cheeper route to go as someone else is footing the bill.


SUBJECT:  Re: TBI - TO:DAWN SP.ED.AVOC   Date:  97-04-01 23:47:00 EST
From:  Jwmlda

Contact the Board for People with Disabilities, PO Box 613 Richmond VA 23205
-0813 tel [phone].  The are the Protection and Advocacy Group that is
federally funded to advocate for people with disabilities.

SUBJECT:  Re:The
Friday News-#24-NPND   Date:  97-04-10 00:41:27 EST
From:  DoreenN738

Dear Susan,
      This is Doreen Nickels again.  I have been off AOL for a long time.
Once again I notice you chiding people getting angry at each other.  I notice
you telling people especially parents not to get personal and say things like
"Shame Shame/"  Well in my book ALauritzen can say whatever the h--l she
wants to.  Particularly to Arloateach and other teachers who can accuse
parents of being "selfish."
     Nothing personal-just an observation.

SUBJECT:  Re:SusanS29   Date:  97-04-10 00:59:36 EST
From:  DoreenN738

Dear Susan,
    It's Doreen again.  I just want to say that at my kid's 3 year
reassessment meeting.  I facilitated the meeting.  Since I am trained in
conflict resolution,negotiating to "win-win",it worked out real well.   A
copule posts back I reacted negatively to one of your chides.  I have calmed
down.  I just want you to know that I respect your input.

SUBJECT:
Communication   Date:  97-04-10 01:57:18 EST
From:  DoreenN738

Dear Everyone,
       I haave been OffLine for a while now.  I have re-read posts from
teachers and parents.  It has reopened old wounds for me.  I get so angry at
some of the educators who seem so angry and bitter.  Well parents are angry
and bitter too.  In a nutshell I think everything would improve if everyone
understood the letter and intent of IDEA.  Then it would be nice if districts
would simply comply with the law.  Then litigation would be curtailed.  I
wish there was some way that I could not react so emotionally to some of
these posts.  If I offend people I sincerely apologise.  But I think everyone
needs to read the posts again that referenced Reed Martin.

SUBJECT:
Re:Communication   Date:  97-04-10 16:03:17 EST
From:  Wheels2082

Welcome back Doreen!  The months since I began teaching online have been a
real eye opener for me.  Thanks to working with parents I know what you say
is true concerning compliance with Federal laws.

Dawn Saur (Wheels2082)
Online teacher but not one offline
Special Education ADVOCATE

SUBJECT:  Re:Survey in Texas   Date:  97-04-10 22:25:50 EST
From:  Mtmfam

Hurry ! Deadline to respond to the Texas survey on behavior management is
April 25, 1997.
The address of the web site is:        http://www2.esc3.tenet.edu/bms/
Thank you.

SUBJECT:  Re:Communication   Date:  97-04-15 19:37:46 EST
From:  User492544

To:Dawn Saur (Wheels2082)
Where do you teach aboutadvocating online? There is a person in my life with
problems that really needs help.I would like to check out the site.


SUBJECT:  To everyone,   Date:  97-04-15 21:47:58 EST
From:  Wheels2082

I don't mention the area I teach in online because I'm pretty careful giving
out the information along with the location.  Pretty protective of my
registered students since most come with many problems concerning Special
Education.

Dawn Saur (Wheels2082)
Online teacher
Special Education ADVOCATE

SUBJECT:  Re:A Question, Please   Date:  97-04-16 05:54:36 EST
From:  SpedAdvoRN

Office for Civil Rights, Region 1 (New England area) settled a complaint on
this subject.  It is a violation of a child's civil rights to be 'educated'
at home based upon an abitrary 'cap' on services.  Boston Public Schools
agreed to change its policy of spending $50 per week fro children in the
hospital or home bound (on the order of an MD only).

the bottom line is this-the needs of the child and the wishes of the
physician determine amount of home/hospital tutoring.  Also, tutoring must be
during school hours, not after school.

SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  97-04-22 11:20:13 EST
From:  MFreeze640

You better sit back and count your blessings that there are people willing to
fight these battles for our children.  I'm including any that you may have.
Let me remind you that any one smug enough to sit back while their "normal"
child sails through the educational process and scorns the parents and
advocates of exceptional children better say a blessing right now.  Any ones
child at any moment can become an"exceptional" child.  It can be as simple as
a virus gone awry or an at an instant accident.  Any second now your child
could become the next child going through the Sp. Ed. process.  You can be
the next parent running from specialist to specialist.  Being told your child
is too difficult.  Being told, "You fix the problem, it's not the districts
responsibility".  Searching for material endlessly.  Having too many
sleepless night wondering what your next action should be.  Take a look in
the mirror honey, we don't look so different.

SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  97-04-22 21:54:53 EST
From:  Cpruitt0

AMEN MFreeze!  I hate to say it but sometimes I wish these people (won't
mention any in particualr) could have an exceptional child of their own to
deal with just 1 day, and I don't mean to work with for 20 minutes in a day.


SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  97-04-23 11:06:37 EST
From:  RhoLaren

Some of the discontent is with how IDEA gets implemented. Please read the
posts from the teachers who get virtually no help at all with these children.
Do not criticize the teacher. The teacher is really saying that the CHILD is
receiving no help in situations like this. The CHILD is suffering when the
teacher details the lack of support. Please keep this in mind when you want
to criticize us for being a little hesitant about embracing everything simply
because it is the latest idea to emerge. Remember, it is the teacher who will
do the work, either the regular or the special ed teacher. Some of them are
so swamped that the child is getting absolutely no benefit, all paperwork to
the contrary.

SUBJECT:  Friday News #40   Date:  97-04-29 11:50:11 EST
From:  ALauritzen

The Friday News, a weekly news bulletin from the National Parent Network on
Disabilities
April 25, 1997 Number 40

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This edition of the Friday News contains the following articles and
announcements:
*IDEA Working Group Provides Recommendations
*Rehab Act Reauthorization
*"I Am Your Child"
*Summit for America's Future
*Help for SSI Cases
*Organizational Support Statement - Hatch-Kennedy CHILD Legislation

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IDEA Working Group Provides Recommendations
The Working Group has provided their recommendations for the Reauthorization
of IDEA. A matrix of the recommendations has been provided, but the actual
proposed bill is not yet out. Based on the matrix, the proposals are far more
family friendly. David Hoppe and the other members of the working group are
to be commended for their efforts. The proposal strengthens the definition of
parents.
Additionally, parent participation is stronger in the decision making process
in all areas from initial placement to decisions regarding discipline. The
proposal has included voluntary mediation provided by a trained impartial
third party, who can not be a part of the LEA or SEA.
The discipline language is much better. There is NO CESSATION of services.
Alternative placements for weapons, drugs, and with the direction of a
hearing officer, for students where it has been demonstrated that they are a
danger to themselves or others, can not exceed 45 days. All other
disciplinary actions are not to exceed 10 school days. The proposal also
clarifies that the IEP team, including the parent, determines the alternative
setting for a child. There is much more in the proposal; these are just some
of the highlights. The one thing we need to keep asking for is stronger
implementation and monitoring of programs and services. We are interested in
your thoughts and ideas about the proposed changes.
**Contact NPND to learn how to become a member of one of the working
legislative teams.**

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rehab Act Reauthorization
Recently, House Republicans released their plan for reauthorizing the
Rehabilitation Act. A "non-controversial" bill was slated to be introduced on
April 16, followed by a markup in the Education, Training and Lifelong
Learning Subcommittee on April 24 and a markup by the full Education and the
Workforce Committee on April 30. The legislation would extend the Rehab Act
for two years. A potentially problematic new proposal  would allow for a
"limited written plan" as a substitute for the usual Individual Written Rehab
Plan, if the client requests such a limited plan. Thanks to the Arc  for this
information.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"I Am Your Child"
As part of the "I Am Your Child" Early Childhood Public Engagement Campaign,
ABC will air an hour-long ABC special on Monday April 28 at 8pm ET. The
special, produced by Rob Reiner and Michele Singer Reiner, special will
feature music, comedy and a documentary about a community that has mobilized
on behalf of young children. The program will be hosted by Tom Hanks with
appearances by Billy Crystal, Michael J. Fox, Charlton Heston, Rosie
O'Donnell, Roseanne, Shaquille O'Neal, Robin Williams, Oprah Winfrey, General
Colin Powell and President and Mrs. Clinton. The show will build on brain
research and will touch on topics that relate to child care, health care,
parenting, and community support for children and families. For more
information, visit the website at http://www.iamyourchild.org

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


SUBJECT:  Friday News #40, Part 2   Date:  97-04-29 11:50:51 EST
From:  ALauritzen

ORGANIZATIONAL SUPPORT STATEMENT HATCH-KENNEDY CHILD LEGISLATION, S.525 AND
S.526
We support, and urge the Congress to pass, the bipartisan Hatch-Kennedy CHILD
(Children's Health Insurance and Lower Deficits) legislation, S.525 and S.
526.

Every child deserves a healthy start in life.  There are presently 10 million
uninsured children in the country under age 18 who cannot count on access to
quality health care when they need it. Nine in ten of these children have a
parent who works.  The number of children losing private health insurance
increases by 3,300 every day.

The Hatch-Kennedy CHILD legislation makes child health coverage accessible
and affordable for the families of these 10 million uninsured children:

  The Hatch-Kennedy CHILD legislation gives grants to states to provide
vouchers to pay all or part of the cost of private health insurance for 5
million uninsured children and pregnant women in families with incomes too
high for Medicaid.

╖   Parents of the two million uninsured children in families with incomes
too high to qualify for vouchers could buy health insurance for their
children at the low-cost group rate from the same health plans that contract
with the state for the voucher system.

╖   Three million more uninsured children have access to health coverage
because they are eligible for Medicaid today.

The Hatch-Kennedy CHILD legislation funds children's health coverage through
a 43 cents per pack increase in federal tobacco taxes.  It is estimated that
this tobacco excise tax increase will raise $30 billion over five years --$20
billion to fund children's health coverage and $10 billion for deficit
reduction -- and also reduce smoking by children and youth by almost 16
percent nationwide.

Now is the time to provide health insurance coverage for all of America's
children.

Organization:

Contact Name:

Address:                                City:
State:

Phone:                                  Fax:                          Email:

Return to:
Susan Polan, American Cancer Society, Fax: [phone]; Email: susan_polan
@test.cancer.org
Gregg Haifley, Children's Defense Fund, Fax: [phone];
Email:[e-mail]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Campaign for CHILD Health
Please call or write the following Senators who have co-sponsored both parts
of the Hatch-Kennedy CHILD legislation (the insurance piece, and the tobacco
tax) and thank them for their leadership in the effort to provide health
insurance coverage for all of America's uninsured children: Sen. Hatch
(R-UT), Sen. Jeffords (R-VT), Sen. Rockefeller (D- WV), Sen. Kennedy (D-MA),
Sen. Kerry (D-MA), Sen. Smith (R-OR), Sen. Bingaman (D-NM), Sen. Lautenberg
(D-NJ), Sen. Snowe (R-ME), Sen. Boxer (D-CA), Sen. Murray (D-WA), Sen.
Wellstone (D-MN), Sen. Dodd (D-CT), Sen. Reed (D-RI), Sen. Wyden (D-OR),
Sen. Durbin (D-IL), Sen. Reid (D-NV).

If a Senator is a co-sponsor of S.525, but not of S.526, which provides for
the 43 cent per pack tobacco tax increase to provide for children's health
coverage and to reduce the deficit, please ask the Senator to also co-sponsor
S.526: Sen. Campbell (R-CO), Sen. Daschle (D-SD), Sen. Stevens (R-AK), Sen.
Collins (R-ME), Sen. Mikulski (D-MD)  Please call or write all of the
remaining Senators, who have not given their support to either bill, and urge
them to co-sponsor the bipartisan Hatch-Kennedy CHILD legislation, S.525 and
S.526, to provide health coverage for America's uninsured children and lower
the deficit, funded by a 43 cent per pack tobacco tax increase.

All Senators may be reached via the Capitol Switchboard: 202-224-3121 or
1-800-962-3524; or via mail at The Honorable ___________, US Senate, Wash.,
DC 20510;


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NPND*1727 King Street, Suite 305*Alexandria, VA  22314
[phone]*[phone], fax*[e-mail]*www.npnd.org




SUBJECT:  IDEA Working Group's Draft    Date:  97-04-29 11:51:55 EST
From:  ALauritzen

You may find a copy of this Draft Proposal on the Council for Exceptional
Children website under legislation.

http://www.cec.sped.org

SUBJECT:  IDEA STAFF DRAFT NOW OUT   Date:  97-05-01 16:41:01 EST
From:  ALauritzen

------------------------
   ### --- INFORMATION UPDATE --- ###
------------------------
From The Arc's Governmental Affairs Office, 1730 K Street, N.W.,
Suite 1212, Washington, D.C. 20006
[phone] / FAX [phone] / TDD [phone]
E-Mail [e-mail]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
May 1, 1997


IDEA "Staff Draft" Available On-Line!

A copy of the draft proposal to reauthorize IDEA is now available
on the world wide web.  This proposal was drafted by the
Congressional staff working group under the leadership of
David Hoppe, Chief of Staff for Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott (R-MS).

As a follow-up to the release of this information, there will be
another public meeting on Friday, May 2.  Information on that
meeting will be included in the next issue of The Capitol Insider,
and an analysis of the IDEA proposal will be included in the
next Government Report.

To view the proposal on-line,
visit either of these web sites:

http://www.house.gov/eeo/ideadraft.htm
http://www.senate.gov/~labor/idea.htm

For more information, please contact Paul Marchand at The Arc,
[phone], or e-mail [e-mail]





SUBJECT:  Re:IDEA STAFF DRAFT NOW OUT   Date:  97-05-03 08:50:27 EST
From:  Ratatat

ALauritzen, thank you for posting this information for all of us to read and
gain knowledge.  Once again, you have provided a valuable service.

SUBJECT:
Question   Date:  97-05-03 22:07:58 EST
From:  S m wigton

Does anyone nkow about any legislative action towards public schoolings sp.
ed. and their program for Autistic and PDD children.  I know that there have
been some cases especially in CAL. and MD. and Va.  I would love any info
anyone may have
thanks

SUBJECT:  Free, IDEA Tele-meeting   Date:  97-05-05 08:35:32 EST
From:  ALauritzen

5 May 1997

FROM:        National Parent Network on Disabilities (NPND)

RE:    National IDEA Tele-meeting:  Tuesday, 6 May 1997 at 2:00 PM Eastern Time


This memorandum contains additional information regarding the second of a
series of national tele-meetings that NPND is hosting for its members
regarding the Reauthorization of IDEA mentioned in the Friday Fax.  It is
scheduled for Tuesday, 6 May 1997 at 2:00 Eastern Time.

This meeting will focus on "A Review of the Staff Discussion Draft on IDEA.
Presenters for this tele-meeting are Kathy Boundy, Esq., of the Center for
Law and Education, Boston, Massachusetts and Diane Lipton, of DREDF
(Disability Rights, Education and Defense Fund), Berkeley, CA.  The meeting
will be presented in lecture format with a question and answer session.

The toll free dial-in number for this call is as follows:

    Dial-in number:  [phone]
    Confirmation #:   2028254
    Chairperson of this call:  IDEA (when you dial in this is the name you give
the Sprint operator

If you are interested in participating in this call, please contact the NPND
offices in one of the following ways:

╪ Call the NPND offices:    [phone]
╪ Email at:            [e-mail]
╪ Fax this form to:        [phone]

It is very important that we get an accurate count so that we know how many
lines to secure for the call.

Also, feel free to fax or email any questions that you may have concerning
this issue prior to the call.


I WOULD LIKE TO JOIN THE TELE-MEETING CALL ON 6 MAY AT 2:00 PM ET:

_______________    Name:  _____________________________________________________

            Organization:  ________________________________________________

            Phone #:  ____________________________________

            Fax #:      ____________________________________

List of Questions:




SUBJECT:  Add and Asthma   Date:  97-05-05 16:49:08 EST
From:  PRabon4366

My son has ADD and Asthma.  He is on medication for both.  He is in the sixth
grade and is in regular classes.  I am scheduled to meet with a School
Assistance Team to see if I can get a medical understanding of my son's
problems.  He frequently is absent because of the asthma and the ADD causes
him to get behind and stay behind.  Is it possible for him to be excused from
all the extra missed school work under the 504 law?  P.Rabon

SUBJECT:  Re:Add and
Asthma   Date:  97-05-05 19:28:34 EST
From:  Ratatat

<I am scheduled to meet with a School Assistance Team to see if I can get a
medical understanding of my son's problems.  He frequently is absent because
of the asthma and the ADD causes him to get behind and stay behind.  Is it
possible for him to be excused from all the extra missed school work under
the 504 law? >

Both asthma and ADD, when the effect a child's ability to learn, are
considered disabling conditions under 504.  I'm not sure it would really be
in your son's best interest to be excused from all missed work, but I think
it would be appropriate for them to modify it so that it isn't overwhelming,
and to give him sufficient support and accommodations to get caught up,
including enough time.

Don't they make the work available to him when he is absent?  When my
children can't go to school I have the option of picking up classroom
assignments daily so that we don't get too far behind.

SUBJECT:  Extended Year   Date:  97-05-10 22:32:05 EST
From:  PA532

Who is entitled to "extended year" or summer school.  I have two physically
handicapped nonverbal kindergarteners.  They receive speech and language,
special education resource, OT and PT and have an aide in their regular
class.  Shouldn't they be provided with a summer program?


SUBJECT:  OHI   Date:  97-05-10 22:33:29 EST
From:  PA532

I'm an Illinois Resident - Can't find the OHI - other health impaired -
category in our state's listing of who qualifies for special education.
Please define other health impaired.  Thanks!

SUBJECT:  Re:Extended Year   Date:  97-05-11 07:36:51 EST
From:  Ratatat

< Shouldn't they be provided with a summer program?>

Only if it is also available to their non-disabled peers, or if you can prove
that it is necessary to provide those services so that no significant
regression would occur.

SUBJECT:  Re:OHI   Date:  97-05-11 07:37:47 EST
From:  Ratatat

<I'm an Illinois Resident - Can't find the OHI - other health impaired -
category in our state's listing of who qualifies for special education.
Please define other health impaired.  >

This is a category defined by the Federal Government.  It must exist.  In
Michgian we call it "Physically and Other Health Impaired,"  POHI.

SUBJECT:
Re:OHI   Date:  97-05-11 19:29:50 EST
From:  KTteech

Also an IL teacher.  I  have students who are catergorized as OHI, as a
primary or secondary impairment.

SUBJECT:  Information Please   Date:  97-05-13 17:06:22 EST
From:  C Blatt

   wher Can i find out how to  download  or  copy the  New Proposal  of the
IDEA.  does anyone know that WEB SITE  ADDRESS  Can you please  e  Mail me
Thank  You

SUBJECT:  Re:Information Please   Date:  97-05-13 17:38:24 EST
From:  MarRigby

C Blatt:
These are the web sites for the IDEA proposals. I think I tried the first
one.

http://www.house.gov/eeo/ideadraft.htm
http://www.senate.gov/~labor/idea.htm

Hope this helps.

Marilyn

SUBJECT:  IDEA   Date:  97-05-14 08:33:57 EST
From:  ALauritzen

The new official Senate number for IDEA is S.717

SUBJECT:  IDEA Passed Today   Date:  97-05-14 18:10:10 EST
From:  ALauritzen

The Senate passed S 717 this afternoon. Since they passed the same version of
IDEA as HR 5. The Bill should be moving on to the President.

SUBJECT:  Re:IDEA
Passed Today   Date:  97-05-14 19:38:51 EST
From:  WMccorm348

Will the money allocated for this law allow inclusion to be successful
because the supports that are needed are in the classroom?  Will there still
be a cry that the special education budget exceeds that of the regular
student?

SUBJECT:  Re:IDEA Passed Today   Date:  97-05-14 21:12:12 EST
From:  Kidkonect

I am an IL resident.  My daughter has Down Syndrome and ADHD. I know the ADHD
can be defined as a separate disability( adversely affecting the education of
the child) under federal law IDEA.  Does anyone know if ADHD can be
identified in IL as a separate disability (OHI) thereby allowing for
specialized services to address the ADHD (like a behavioral specialist
dealing with mental impairment & ADHD).  Our recent IEP is indicating that
staff will recommend a self contained placement based on the behaviors
ocurring now. My daughter has been in the regular classroom for ALL of her
education thus far (K-5).
ANY HELP/RESOURCES/ ADVICE  WOULD BE APPRECIATED asap.  We stopped the IEP to
research this issue.

Thanks

email Kidkonect @ aol

SUBJECT:  Re:IDEA Passed Today   Date:  97-05-15 05:19:20 EST
From:  Ratatat

<Does anyone know if ADHD can be identified in IL as a separate disability
(OHI) thereby allowing for specialized services to address the ADHD (like a
behavioral specialist dealing with mental impairment & ADHD).>

You should be in contact with your state's Protection and Advocacy Agency.
They might be very helpful in sorting this out.  It's so individual and
speicialized (or should be) for each student, depending on their current
level or performance, upon which the IEP should be based.

SUBJECT:  Re:IDEA
Passed Today   Date:  97-05-15 09:09:30 EST
From:  CHSMom

Why does IL need to qualify ADHD as OHI if IDEA does?  States can pass laws
to exceed IDEA,
but cannot dilute IDEA, or eliminate any of its provisions.

SUBJECT:  Re:IDEA
Passed Today   Date:  97-05-16 00:08:47 EST
From:  Jwmlda

105 # 7          IDEA TO BE SIGNED INTO LAW IN JUNE             105 # 7

LDA  , The Learning Disabilities Association
                                          of America
4156 Library Road Pittsburgh, PA 15234-1349  412/341-1515  FAX  [phone]

May 15,1997
TO:  LDA BOARD, PAB, STATE AND LOCAL PRESIDENTS, NETWORK
FROM: PUBLIC AFFAIRS COMMITTEE

    On Tuesday, May 13,the House of Representatives passed HR 5, The IDEA
Improvements Act of 1997 by a vote of 420 to 3.  On Wednesday, May 14,  after
allowing time for debate on two proposed amendments, the Senate also passed
HR 5 (which is identical to S. 717) by a vote of 99 to 1.  Because the House
and the Senate passed identical bills, there is no need for a conference and
the final bill is going directly to the President, who plans to sign it into
law in early June.  The signing ceremony will be in the Rose Garden.  LDA
President Sandra Britt has been invited to attend. The new IDEA will be given
a Public Law number, P.L. 105. xxx, depending on the order in which laws have
been passed in the 105th Congress.

    This new law is not perfect, but as reported in earlier updates, it contains
many provisions which should help children with learning disabilities obtain
the education they deserve. As David Hoppe, Chief of Staff for Senator
Majority Leader Trent Lott told attendees at the LDA/NICHD Conference on
"Progress and Promise in Research and Education for Individuals with Learning
Disabilities", this new law should improve educational outcomes for children
with disabilities, increase parent participation in decision making
processes, and help teachers teach children.

    Once the bill is signed into law, the Office of Special Education Programs
must issue regulations to cover the requirements for its implementation.  LDA
will be seeking for your input on how those regulations should be worded and
let you know about the final regulations.  The effectiveness of this updated
IDEA depends on your knowing what it contains.
    In the meantime, enjoy the victory after a long, hard-fought battle.  You
may want to call or write to thank your Congressmen who supported the bill.
The only no votes were by Senator Slade Gorton (R-WA) and Representatives
Herbert Bateman (R-VA) Ray LaHoud (R-IL) and Ron Paul (R-TX).


SUBJECT:  Re:IL Mom--IEP   Date:  97-05-17 20:10:44 EST
From:  SR92050

What was the primary handicapping condition before the annual review?  What
was your daughter's placement for this past year?  There is a continuum of
services and it is rare that placement options would have been "skipped
over", for example from regular education (with no special ed support) to a
self contained classroom (with no interaction with non-disabled peers).  What
services did she receive in the regular classroom?  What other options were
discussed at the annual review?

In Illinois, ADHD could go under OHI, with OHI being a primary or secondary
condition, the (related) services for which your daughter would be eligible
would have been determined at the annual review.  If the handicapping
condition was changed at the annual review, was there a new case study/
recent evaluations that showed your daughter's conditions to have changed? If
you can answer these questions, I'll try to be more helpful.  Good luck!





SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  97-05-18 20:27:33 EST
From:  AMccoy1011

You have said a mouthful MFreeze , I couldn't agree with you more!!  People
who have never gone through what you have described have no right to tell
those of us who have how to act , think, or feel. We are the ones who have to
look back when our children are 22 years old and know that we have done all
that we know how to do for our exceptional children .  And has it ever
occured to some people that most of the parents who have exceptional children
have REGULAR ED. children also, so we are very balanced in our thinking when
it comes to the school system as a whole.
Give us a break!

SUBJECT:  Cum folders/report cards   Date:  97-05-20 20:16:19 EST
From:  DESERT1Z

I am seeking specific information as to what a student's cum folder should
legally contain regarding special education status or simply a referral to
the student study team for classroom modifications which may or may not have
led to a formal referral/assessment.  I am concerned that files at my school
site contain too many inappropriate references in these areas.  If there is a
policy or document to reference, I would appreciate learning about it.  I am
also wondering if report card policy exists regarding  statements such as
"grading modifications utlized", etc.. to indicate collaboration between
special and regular education personnel.  What is the best practice for
maintaining student confidentiality and maintaining appropriate records?
Summer vacation is just around the corner...all posts welcome!

Thanks

SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  97-05-21 00:29:02 EST
From:  Wheels2082

My family is blessed with two unique individuals.  I am High Functioing
Autistic/ Aspergers Syndrome.  My younger brother is Mentally Gifted.

Dawn Saur (Wheels2082)
Online teacher
Special Education ADVOCATE

SUBJECT:  Re:Cum folders/report cards   Date:  97-05-21 08:35:40 EST
From:  Ratatat

< What is the best practice for maintaining student confidentiality and
maintaining appropriate records? >

This is actually spelled out within the Family Education Rights and Privacy
Act (FERPA), also called the Buckley Amendment.  Notice of the regulations,
as well as procedures for parents to use concerning access, release and
greivance are supposed to be published by the district.

You can find a decent review of the rules in "Negotiating the Special
Education Maze," by Anderson, Chitwood and Hayden.  They've dedicated a whole
chapter to the subject of student reocrds.  In addition, "You, Your Child and
'Special' Education: A Guide to Making the System Work," by Barbara Coyne
Cutler has excellent information on student records.

You can also get information about this directly from FERPA in Washington,
D.C. at 202-732-2057

SUBJECT:  Re:Cum folders/report cards   Date:  97-05-21 19:14:00 EST
From:  Smurph826

In NYC, as a related service provider, I warn my teachers about adding any
comments on the cum file regarding any special services this child receives.
Special Ed files are considered confidential and are closed permanently once
the child is decertified from special ed.  This way the information does not
follow the child throughout his school career.  Check with your Special Ed
Supv. for that school to verify what is allowed on a cum file and what is
not.

SUBJECT:  Re:IDEA Passed Today   Date:  97-05-22 09:49:28 EST
From:  Jwmlda

105 # 8              DATES ON IDEA IMPLEMENTATION                        105
# 8

LDA  , The Learning Disabilities Association
                                          of America
4156 Library Road Pittsburgh, PA 15234-1349  412/341-1515  FAX  [phone]

May 22,1997
TO:  LDA BOARD, PAB, STATE AND LOCAL PRESIDENTS, NETWORK
FROM: PUBLIC AFFAIRS COMMITTEE

    HR 5, which is identical to S 717 is printed in the May 13 Congressional
Record.
You can download S 717 and the report language via www.gov/eeo/ideadraft.htm;
or off www.cec.sped.org/pp/idea-a.htm.  If you can wait a few days, you can
also get print copies of S 717 and the report language by faxing your request
to 202/228-2815.
The IDEA Amendments of 1997 (H.R. 5, S. 717) restructures IDEA and puts it
into 4 Parts:
Part A, General Provisions, including definitions (SLD is unchanged)
Part B, Assistance for Education of All Children with disabilities,
Part C Infants and Toddlers with Disabilities
Part D National Activities to Improve Education of Children with
Disabilities.

    The President is expected to sign the bill into law on the afternoon of May
4.
The bill is effective as soon as it is signed, with the following exceptions:


Effective Oct. 1, 1997
*Sec 617 of Part B: Responsibility of the Secretary for Administration of the
Act
* Part D Support Programs

Effective July 1, 1998
* Sec 612(a)(4) of Part B: the Definition of the IEP;
* Sec. 612(a)(14) of Part B: the Comprehensive System of Personnel
Development;
* Sec. 612(a)(16) of Part B: Performance Goals and Objectives for Children
with
          Disabilities;
* Sec. 614(d) Development of the IEP (except for paragraph (6) on students
with
     disabilities in adult prisons which becomes effective immediately)
* Sec. 618 Data Collection on Race, Ethnicity, and Disability Category
Part C (formerly Part H) Early Intervention

Although the change in funding formula from child count to percentage of
school population kicks in when the bill is signed into law, it will not come
into effect until IDEA appropriations reach $4.9 billion.

    LDA will be looking for input on proposed regs soon.  The department has a
year from the signing date to issue them.  They are also required to have a
90 day comment period.  We will keep you posted.

    There is plenty of other legislative activity, such as the reauthorization
of the Voc. Rehab, the Job Training Partnership, the Adult Education, the
Adult Literacy, and the Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention Acts.
Updates on these will be forthcoming.


SUBJECT:  IDEA: WHAT NEW MEANS TO US   Date:  97-06-18 20:38:35 EST
From:  NEA SEEKER

If you want to know what some of the new IDEA will mean to you and if you
would like to have input into the new regulations please get in touch with
me. My name is Ed Amundson and I am chair of the National Education
Association, Caucus for Educators of Exceptional Children ( CEEC ). Our group
was very involved in the re-authorization and will be involved in the writing
of the enabling regs. I would appreciate your input into the process. You
need not be a member to have input, but we would definately welcome your
membership. Any questions I can be reached at NEA SEEKER. Our latest
newsletter has a complete bulleted breakdown of the new law. Hope to hear
from you soon.
Ed

SUBJECT:  Supreme Court    Date:  97-06-23 20:29:23 EST
From:  Gutermanad

How can I get the text of today's supreme court ruling on special ed
assistance required to be provided to parochial schools,  this will impact
many of us.

SUBJECT:  Re:Supreme Court    Date:  97-06-25 04:50:15 EST
From:  Ratatat

<How can I get the text of today's supreme court ruling on special ed
assistance required to be provided to parochial schools,  this will impact
many of us.>

If it's been published yet, you should be able to get it through the
Department of Education web page at:  http://www.ed.gov/

SUBJECT:  Schools giving
wrong info   Date:  97-08-08 10:36:50 EST
From:  Lynnebl

Many times when the school explains procedural safeguards to the parents of
disabled children, they give false and misleading information.  During a
quest to find out where this problem was starting, friends of mine attended a
training for school personnel.  A prominent attorney taught methods and
strategies for preventing parents from becoming informed.  He admitted that
he was doing this in order to help the school limit the number of student
identified and given help in special ed.  IDEA only protects children in my
area if parents are willing to take on a huge system.  Can anything be done
to ensure school personnel that explain procedural safeguards know the
law?

SUBJECT:  Re:Schools giving wrong info   Date:  97-08-08 20:04:21 EST
From:  Mars000210

Hello, from what I have read here on line schools are only obilgated to Alert
parents to the laws not explain them. That has been the experience that I
have had. That means that you must know how your school district interputs
the federal laws to remain incomplience.
     What that means for you is that you can do some interpertation of your
own. I did. I turned their own terminology back on them to get my childrens
IEP and 504 plans. It was a lot of work.
Yes, a parent must take on the system and it is huge, but not insurmontable.
Thier are plenty of agencies out there that helped me over and over again. I
don't look at the system the same anymore as if I am a small clog fighting
alone. Keep learning Barb

SUBJECT:  Re:Schools giving wrong info   Date:  97-08-12 11:18:58 EST
From:  LINDA17502

I'm an SLP in Illinois.  From what I understand, we are to provide parents
with a copy of parent rights at several steps in the process (ie prior to
initial eval).  We are also to explain their rights when they don't
understand.  There is even a signature required on the forms that the parents
must sign agreeing that their rights have been explained.  Sounds like this
practice is not universal?  It should be!

SUBJECT:  NEW IDEA LAWS   Date:  97-08-19 20:09:43 EST
From:  GPREGOR

Someone in Washington better smarten up before we have special teachers
killed in the classroom by students that can't be suspended!

SUBJECT:  Re:Schools
giving wrong info   Date:  97-08-19 20:37:15 EST
From:  TLVAIL

I heard today that giving parents a copy of their handbooks containing their
rights is not good enough- The school personel must also explain the rights
to the parents and be sure they understand- Question_ How can you be sure
they understand?  I think sometimes parents are afraid to ask questions which
makes it appear they understand when they really don't.  I don't want to
offend anyone at a meeting so I don't want to "talk down" to anyone.  Any
suggestions? ( Maybe a post conference quiz;0)

SUBJECT:  Re:Schools giving wrong
info   Date:  97-08-19 21:16:37 EST
From:  HarrietSLP

Also be sure that you send out the ADDENDUM to parent rights ASAP!   We got a
memo from our State Dept of Ed ( Tennessee) which reads:

The reauthorization of IDEA signed into law in June, 1997 requires the state
and local education agencies to make various changes to our policies and
procedures and practices.  The Division will issue a series of those
memorandums as we receive guidance from OSEP and as we develop various forms
as referred.
Attached is information to be provided to each of your parents.  While this
must be added to the RIGHTS OF CHILDREN WITH DISABILITIES AND PARENT
RESPNSIBILITIES BROCHURE as an addendum, and given whenever it is required to
give procedural safeguards; it would be advisable to give every parent a copy
of this as school begins.  Otherwise, parents will not have been notified and
therefore this addendum could not be used as a defense at a Due Process
Hearing.
If additional information is needed please contact ________ or myself at
__________.

Note:  The addendum itself addresses:
         I.  Notice to parents regarding denial of reimbursement for private
school tuition.
             The 1997 amendments of IDEA require parents to notify the public
education agency when the parents intend to unilaterally place their child in
a private school and request the public educational agency to reimburse the
parents for parents of tuition and other related costs.

II. Reduction  or denial of attorney's fees for failure to disclose the
description or the nature of the problem and a proposed resolution.
         A parent or an attorney representing a child shall notify in writing
the school districtm, where the child is enrolled and against whom the
parents and/or attorned intends to file a due process hearing request, and
provide the following information:

Also there is a parent's due process hearing request form as part of the
addendum.

NOTE: We were told by our special ed director to send a copy of this ADDENDUM
home to every special ed kid ASAP and to document in their folder when we
did.  Also this addendum is to be attached to the Parental Rights Brochure
and STEP BY STEP GUIDE for parents until the revised ones can be printed. As
in the past we would send one out on an initial evaluation, reevaluation,
M-Team notice, M-Team/IEP form) .  We are to document their form has been
given on the form and in the back of the child's folder also.

I'm sure there will be more MEMOS to follow as the state education department
receives info from OSEP.

~Harriet   :o)

SUBJECT:  Re:Schools giving wrong info   Date:  97-08-21 14:22:51 EST
From:  Lynnebl

Harriet, I am impressed that your state and local school district is making
an honest attempt to distribute the new information to parents of Special
Education students.  I asked my district about it and they are bewildered.
Giving out information is not something they are committed to doing.  This
week I received an explanation of procedural safeguards dated April 1995.  I
will contact our State Agency for this new info.  Wish me luck!

SUBJECT:
Re:Schools giving wrong info   Date:  97-08-22 21:17:31 EST
From:  VBSSLP

When IDEA 97 was signed this summer, there was no built in 'transition' time,
and school systems are now frantically trying to have their attorneys
interpret what the new changes mean, develop new forms to accomodate, and new
procedures.  Instead of everyone making their own interpretations and doing a
zillion different things, school systems at the administrative level need to
hammer it out ASAP, but until then, it seems there is a lot of potential for
a BIG MESS!!

SUBJECT:  Church & State   Date:  97-08-23 09:26:55 EST
From:  CoTeachNet

This summer, in a majority opinion written by Justice Sandra Day O'Connor,
the US Supreme Curt decided that allowing public teachers to walk onto the
grounds of religious schools and teach remedial courses to disadvantaged
students does not threaten the nation's wall between church and state.
I cannot find the text of that ruling and wondered how or if that affects the
ability of our public special ed teachers to give services to IEPd or 504
parochial students on site. Is this only for Title 1 students, as our special
ed director says?
CoTeachNet

SUBJECT:  Re:Schools giving wrong info   Date:  97-08-24 20:57:02 EST
From:  Wheels2082

I've been working with parents informing them about Special Education and
their rights.  My formula for this is to use PLAIN English explaining.  Took
me three tries on my materials to formulate my explanations right.  The
parents have a good solid foundation after reading the material I wrote.

Dawn
Online teacher
Special Education ADVOCATE

SUBJECT:  OCR Group therapy   Date:  97-08-27 18:39:00 EST
From:  TLVAIL

Has anyone heard of an OCR ruling regarding the provision of group speech
therapy in the schools?  One of my parents called the preschool coordinator
saying that OCR said that group therapy did not allow for the individual
needs of a student to be met.  I need to get the details of the case.  Does
anyone know how I would go about it?  I'm concerned because I do inclusive
services with my preschool students.  I work in the class, both individually
and in small groups.  I do a 10-15 min. group with the entire class (6
students) which I think is one of the most important things I do.  During
that time we work on turn taking, develop communication "scripts" with
puppets and let the children learn from and imitate each other.  Everything
I'm reading lately suggests that inclusive services in a natural environment
are better for generalization and children learn just as much if not more
than in an individual pullout sessions.  I don't want everything to change
because one parent misinterpreted a ruling and demands individual pull-out
therapy.  The child in question is Autistic and really needs the interaction
during therapy-He's just now beginning to imitate the others in group and
really enjoys our activities.

SUBJECT:  Proficiency standards    Date:  97-08-28 06:39:05 EST
From:  WGeibel50

Does any one know if special ed. Students need to pass district Proficiency
standards to graduate? How do you set differential standards?

SUBJECT:  Re:OCR
Group therapy   Date:  97-08-28 08:32:52 EST
From:  Ratatat

<Has anyone heard of an OCR ruling regarding the provision of group speech
therapy in the schools?  One of my parents called the preschool coordinator
saying that OCR said that group therapy did not allow for the individual
needs of a student to be met.  >

You could contact the OCR in your area and ask if they have a specific ruling
on this issue.

Generally, I think it will boil down to a child's unique/specific needs being
met.  If a child *needs* some individual therapy and is *only* receiving
group therapy, then his needs are not being met, and visa versa.

SUBJECT:  Re:OCR
Group therapy   Date:  97-08-28 22:43:31 EST
From:  HarrietSLP

It is the M-Team's decision to determine what is most appropriate for the
child.  Inclusive services may be more appropriate for one child and entirely
inappropriate for another child.  One needs to look at the individual needs
of each child and decide where he/she can receive the most educational
benefit with supplementary aids and services.  It could even being a
combination of the above.

~Harriet

SUBJECT:  Re:NEW IDEA LAWS   Date:  97-09-03 15:45:10 EST
From:  JstSpyng2

The new IDEA laws address the issue of children whom present a danger to
others.  They can indeed be placed in a different educational situation for
up to 10 days (and further if proper procedures are fallowed) WITHOUT
parental consent.  For further info check out:

http://www.npnd.org/qanda.htm

Ratatat123 (using brothers computer today)

SUBJECT:  American Disabilities Act   Date:  97-09-10 17:29:14 EST
From:  Msc30

I need reference articles re: ADA for a grad. class a friend is taking.
Your prompt responses will be greatly appreciated.  Thanks...:)

SUBJECT:
Re:American Disabilities Act   Date:  97-09-11 17:06:31 EST
From:  Ratatat

<I need reference articles re: ADA for a grad. class a friend is taking. >

Call the Department of Justice and see about getting a copy fo the ADA.

SUBJECT:
Public Laws & Arkansas   Date:  97-09-12 07:00:44 EST
From:  MuskyZak

Can anyone explain to me what this means ....
"(B) a free appropriate public education will be available for all
handicapped children between the ages of three and eighteen within the State
not later than September 1, 1978, and for all handicapped children between
the ages of three and twenty-one within the State not later than September 1,
1980, except with respect to handicapped children aged three to five and aged
eighteen to twenty-one, inclusive, the requirements at this clause shall not
be applied in any State if the application of such requirements would be
inconsistent with State law or practice, or the order of any court,
respecting public education within such age groups in the State:"
My 4 yo son has been identified as severe receptive/moderate expressive
w/developmental delays, and they are willing to offer a few hours a week of
"special services". However, they are NOT willing to provide preschool. I am
certain that he will not be prepared to enter Kindergarten next year!!!! Does
anyone know if Arkansas loopholed out of providing a free an appropriate
education to preschoolers as outlined under PL 94-142? PLEASE HELP! I would
appreciate if anyone who has knowledge of this subject would e-mail me at
MuskyZak. I plan on posting this anywhere I think anyone might be able to
help me ....

SUBJECT:  Re:Public Laws & Arkansas   Date:  97-09-13 09:19:10 EST
From:  Lynnebl

State Law cannot supercede Federal Law.  It is my understanding the school is
responsible for disabled children ages 3-21 and blind children from birth
through 21.  Did you request pre-school along with the related services in
the IEP meeting?  You are part of the committee which determines the
individual needs of the student.

SUBJECT:  Re:Public Laws & Arkansas   Date:  97-09-13 13:52:29 EST
From:  MuskyZak

Yes, I've requested it, but they keeps saying they don't provide that
service. They propose a few hours a week special services. I cannot see how
their proposed services will ensure that my son is ready for Kindergarten
next year. I believe that they are BREAKING the LAW! My undertstanding is
that free preschool is federally mandated for children with disabilities
along with special services. Unless Arkansas specifically passed laws
restricting public funds be spent educating disabled preschool aged children.
That is the information that I am seeking ... Does anyone know if Arkansas
specifically does NOT provide preschool services in conjunction with special
services as mandated by federal law. Please E-MAIL me ... Thank you ! ! ! ! !


SUBJECT:  Re:Public Laws & Arkansas   Date:  97-09-13 13:52:54 EST
From:  MarRigby

If the school system provides a preschool for non-handicapped preschoolers,
then they are required to have a mandated Sp. Ed. program for preschoolers
who qualify.  I believe that there are certain exceptionalities such as the
blind and the hearing impaired where mandated services begin at birth.

Marilyn

SUBJECT:  Re:Public Laws & Arkansas   Date:  97-09-13 13:52:54 EST
From:  MarRigby

If the school system provides a preschool for non-handicapped preschoolers,
then they are required to have a mandated Sp. Ed. program for preschoolers
who qualify.  I believe that there are certain exceptionalities such as the
blind and the hearing impaired where mandated services begin at birth.

Marilyn

SUBJECT:  Re:Public Laws & Arkansas   Date:  97-09-13 14:01:02 EST
From:  MuskyZak

Oops I forgot to mention we haven't had our IEP yet ... I've been preparing,
it's funny how many "rights" I have that they neglected to mention ....
I feel pretty comfortable that I know what services they are proposing
though. They won't include pre-school even though I've requested it. I've
already been burned with them not identifying my daughter early and not
mentioning all of my rights. I won't be burned twice!!!!!!!!

SUBJECT:  Re:Public
Laws & Arkansas   Date:  97-09-13 20:09:20 EST
From:  Ratatat

< Unless Arkansas specifically passed laws restricting public funds be spent
educating disabled preschool aged children. That is the information that I am
seeking ... Does anyone know if Arkansas specifically does NOT provide
preschool services in conjunction with special services as mandated by
federal law.>

Musky, call the Protection & Advocacy agency in Arkansas. They are going to
be familiar with your state's peculiar twists and turns.  Though each state
must follow IDEA, they have to encode this law into their state laws and can
adapt them to some degree.  It's called state's rights.  In fact, I do think
there is a loophole (few states use it) where the state can decide *not* to
fund program for under 5!

SUBJECT:  Re:Public Laws & Arkansas   Date:  97-09-13 20:10:26 EST
From:  Ratatat

Mar, I think you've got it just right with this statement, "If the school
system provides a preschool for non-handicapped preschoolers, then they are
required to have a mandated Sp. Ed. program for preschoolers who qualify.
"

SUBJECT:  Re:Public Laws & Arkansas   Date:  97-09-13 20:59:59 EST
From:  Lynnebl

My school district wasn't providing summer school to disabled children even
though it was provided to regular education students.  I put in a written
complaint to the state education agency and that changed fast!!

SUBJECT:
Re:Public Laws & Arkansas   Date:  97-09-14 07:44:48 EST
From:  MuskyZak

It would be pretty sad comment of affairs if our state elected to loophole
out of providing services for a free appropriate public education considering
I live in the town where Bill Clinton grew up.

SUBJECT:  Public Laws & Arkansas   Date:  97-09-14 13:08:42 EST
From:  ALauritzen

Have you thought of perhaps writing to the President regarding this 'mistake'
in the Arkansas law?  Mrs. Clinton was very much involved with the children's
programs for the state when Mr. Clinton was Governor.

I would be rathering embarrassing if the Presidents own state much less his
home town is not following the federal law.

SUBJECT:  Re:Public Laws & Arkansas   Date:  97-09-15 06:49:25 EST
From:  MuskyZak

Funny you should mention that .... I already sent an e-mail to the White
House. Next on my list is the govenor of Arkansas .... I'm not a roll over
and play dead kinda mom ... LOL ! ! ! !

SUBJECT:  Re:Proficiency standards    Date:  97-09-15 14:33:04 EST
From:  Ndwoz

I'm from Ohio and our laws state that Spec Ed students are required to take
Prof tests in all areas where they are "mainstreamed" or the team decides
that they can pass it. Students can take the test but be exempted from the
results if reasons are stated as to why.... Students cannot be refused the
opportunity to take a test through adm. orders. The goal is to take it. I've
taught 15 years and I've had several LD kids pass all 4 tests and many who
have passed 2 or more!

SUBJECT:  Re:Public Laws & Arkansas   Date:  97-09-24 07:41:13 EST
From:  MuskyZak

To all who helped me regarding services for my son I wanted to say THANK
YOU!!!! Magically at the IEP they suggested preschool in addition to related
services ... LOL ... I'm thrilled with how things worked out!!!! :o)

SUBJECT:
IDEA Hearings Scheduled    Date:  97-09-26 15:33:07 EST
From:  ALauritzen


105 # 14                    IDEA IMPLEMENTATION                           105
# 14

LDA  , The Learning Disabilities Association
                                          of America
4156 Library Road Pittsburgh, PA 15234-1349  412/341-1515  FAX  [phone]

Sept. 26, 1997
LDA Board, PAB, State/Local Presidents, Network
FROM:  LDA Advocacy and Public Affairs Committees

PUBLIC HEARINGS ON PROPOSED REGULATIONS FOR IDEA
The September 17,1997 Federal Register (48924) gives the following dates,
times, and locations of the public meetings designed to obtain public comment
on the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) to implement the statutory
requirements of the IDEA Amendments of 1997.

BOSTON: Thurs. Oct. 23  2:00-7:00 PM          DENVER:  Tues., Nov. 18, 2:00
-7:00 PM,
Logan Ramada Hotel                                        Four Points Hotel
75 Service Rd, Logan International Airport       3535 Quebec Street
Boston, MA 02128                                             Denver CO, 80207

ATLANTA: Mon., Oct. 27, 2:00-7:00 PM          SAN FRANCISCO: Fri, Nov.
21,2:00-7:00 PM
Radisson Hotel Atlanta                                     Holiday Inn
Select/Chinatown
165 Courtland & International Blvd.                 750 Kearny Street
Atlanta, GA 30303                                             San Francisco,
CA 94108

DALLAS:Tues., Oct. 28 2:OO-7:OOPM             CHICAGO: Mon. Nov. 24, 2:OO -
7:OOPM
Radisson Hotel Dallas                                       Sheraton, North
Shore
1893 West Mockingbird Lane                             933 Skokie Boulevard
Dallas, TX,  75235                                               Northbrook,
IL 60062

WASHINGTON, D.C.Tues., Nov. 4, 1:00 -5:00 PM
7th and D Streets,
Washington, D.C. 20407
For further information call Laura Black Price at 202/205-8969.

OSEP VISITS TO REVIEW STATE IMPLEMENTATION PLANS FOR 97-98
Aug 25             MT                             Nov. 10-14  NC DE, WY, WA
Sept. 12           KS, KY, MI                 Dec 1-5  NY, Virgin Islands,
TX. SD. ID, CA
Sept. 22-26      ND, OR,WI                  Dec. 8-12     LA, MA, MO, NV
Sept. 29-Oct 3  HI, Outlying Ter.          Dec. 15-19    MD. NJ, OK
Oct 6-10           WV. IL, IN, TN, AK      Jan. 5-9         VA, MS
Oct. 13-17        VT, AR                       Jan. 12-16     CT, PR, RI, FL
Oct 20-24         IA, SC, NE, UT           Jan.  19-23    GA
Oct. 27-31         MN, PA, ME, NH       Jan. 26-30      AZ, DC, BIA
Nov. 3-7           AL, NM, OH, CO




SUBJECT:  Changing Fedl. Laws   Date:  97-09-30 09:44:14 EST
From:  ECollard

I'm a parent and, thus, not familiar with education jargon.  I heard there's
a new federal law or regulation that changes the requirements regarding which
types of kids need to be included in regular classrooms.  I'm having trouble
tracking this down.  If anyone knows what I'm talking about and can steer me
in the right direction, e-mail me at [e-mail].  Thanks!

SUBJECT:
Re:Changing Fedl. Laws   Date:  97-10-03 18:19:08 EST
From:  RhoLaren

Hello,

I just heard something from some friends, tonight, and would like to know if
it has any accuracy. One of them said the head of the special students told
them at a meeting that IDEA was in the process of being changed. LD was going
to be removed, for example. She wasn't sure if he was referring to Ohio law
or federal law. Have any of you heard about any of that?

SUBJECT:  Re:Changing
Fedl. Laws   Date:  97-10-03 19:48:18 EST
From:  Ratatat

<One of them said the head of the special students told them at a meeting
that IDEA was in the process of being changed. LD was going to be removed,
for example. She wasn't sure if he was referring to Ohio law or federal law.
>

Rho, I get fairly regular updates on IDEA info and this is a new one to me.
Removing LD would remove half (or more) of IDEA, wouldn't it?

Now that the LAW as been passed its up to the Department of Education to
review and write the REGULATIONS to implement that law.  Many have already
been done, but we are all waiting for these regs to be completed.  Maybe she
was referring to one of the older regulations being slightly modified or
something.

SUBJECT:  Re:Changing Fedl. Laws   Date:  97-10-03 22:26:07 EST
From:  RhoLaren

Ratatat, I sure hope so. As I said, she was not very clear. From other things
she was saying, I got the impression the speaker was really talking about
Ohio stuff. And, knowing the speaker, he might have garbled up some stuff.
Or, the teachers are being fed a line so they won't refer kids. I KNEW you
would be up to date.:-)

SUBJECT:  Re:Changing Fedl. Laws   Date:  97-10-03 22:51:25 EST
From:  MarRigby

I think that what she is referring to is this: Under the new IDEA, a child
still needs to qualify under any or combination of the 13 disability areas.
What HAS changed is, that on the IEP itself, you don't need to note the
exceptionality.  My understanding is a student either qualifies or does not
qualify for Special Education services.

Marilyn

SUBJECT:  To Dawn:Teacher or Advocate?   Date:  97-10-05 00:07:49 EST
From:  Drifty50

As a sped Teacher I need advice on how to help my students and their parents
with out over-stepping my bounds as a Teacher. I had problems with my
supervisors last year with a student everyone on the team agreed was
misplaced in my multihandicapped class. The supers all dragged there feet for
what ever reasons(money being one) and he was in my class all year with
nothing accomplished. He non-verbal autistic like and very quick to learn new
signs. We wanted him in a class where both verbal and non-verbal (sign) were
used. This was suggested in November 1996 at IEP meeting -he was not placed
until Aug.97.

   Now I am facing the same type of battle with an autistic 5yr.old girl. She
needs her own aid to provide the structure and discipline she needs but again
the higher ups are balking . I was told there was no possible money for this
aid andthat if she did get one it would open up the possibility for every
parent to want one for their child. Isn't the childs needs supposed to be our
only concern? The parent is trying to get the aid but is getting the same run
around. She is trying her best but is young and almost in tears whenever we
speak because she doesn't know what to do for her daughter. We have suggested
parent support groups and I have given her any new info I come up with but
how far can I as a teacher go?  Am I supposed to back the system even though
I know they do not have the childs interest at heart only the money
issues.Are there any legal issues I need to be concerned about if I continue
to help the students and parents ? Should I send them to an advocate and step
back. This is so frustrating. Sorry this is so long but there is really no
one in our district to turn to for advise.

Suzie

SUBJECT:  Re:To Dawn:Teacher or Advoca   Date:  97-10-05 10:05:22 EST
From:  Mars000210

Hello, this is juat a suggestion that might help you and the parents. Why not
tell them that there is a lot of information about austic children on AOL and
could they access that system and read the posts there and ask any questions
they have there. I'm sure that even if they don't have a computer that a
friend of thieirs will.
         This way people on line can answer their questions and you don't
have to worry about losing your job (isn't it terrible that you have to
concider that). The school can't get mad at you becasuse all you did was tell
them where to look up information about autism.
Take Care Barb

SUBJECT:  Re:Discontent with IDEA   Date:  97-10-05 17:36:36 EST
From:  CinDuncan

As with anything IDEA will take some getting used to.  I am not comfortable
with many aspects of it, however, I would hope it would lead to increased
parental involvement.  The bottom line is - Are students' needs being met?
Do they receive the level and quality of services they need?  I'm really
tired of seeing Special ed. students getting the least of everything when
they supposedly have more" legislative" support than the "average"
student.

SUBJECT:  Re:To Dawn:Teacher or Advoca   Date:  97-10-06 08:57:44 EST
From:  Wheels2082

I am a little of both.  I educate others on how to become participants in the
system.  I became active because I saw some of the same problems I
encountered as a Learning Disabled student, and I didn't want another
generation to see them.  My true disability isn't Learning Disability but a
complex one.

Dawn (Wheels2082)
Online Teacher
Special Education ADVOCATE

SUBJECT:  Re:To Dawn:Teacher or Advoca   Date:  97-10-09 03:35:58 EST
From:  Ratatat

< I was told there was no possible money for this aid andthat if she did get
one it would open up the possibility for every parent to want one for their
child. >

This isn't about every other child.  This is about this child's unique and
individual NEEDS.  Would the higher ups require you to deny CPR to a student
who needed it because all the other kids might need it too?

The young mother needs to get to work on learning her rights, the laws and
how to be assertive, how to document, and how to work the system.

She should get a copy of "Negotiating the Special Education Maze - Third
Edition" by Anderson, Chitwood and Hayden.  A good place to start.

Also, if there is a United Cerebral Palsy Association in your area, you might
suggest she check with them for parent advocacy training.  Many of the
chapters around the country provide free training for parent on the laws and
how to advocate for one's child. They do not limit it to only parents of kids
with CP.

SUBJECT:  Re:Ratatat-Advocate   Date:  97-10-09 22:14:09 EST
From:  Drifty50

Thanks for your reply. Some good advise. I have told Mom to check with our
Spec.Ed Resourse center for advise on finding help. I will let her know about
the info. from you.

Thanks Drifty50

SUBJECT:  Re:Ratatat-Advocate   Date:  97-10-12 12:57:10 EST
From:  ALauritzen

As a late comer into this discussion. I would suggest that parents become
very familiar and 'friendly' with the Parent Training and Information Centers
in each state.  This is the source for information to help parents AND
TEACHER to understand and help advocate the law and how it can best serve the
child's needs in school.

School districts are always going to say that they do not have the funds for
'extras' like aide for students. But if the IEP Team has determined that this
is how the child can best be served in the regular classroom.  Then that is
the "dictate" to the school district.

Remember school districts get reimbursed for many of their expenses from the
funding that comes into their state.

I hope every parent has a copy of their states version of the current IDEA
and will be asking for a copy of the future NEW IDEA.

A good source of information to keep up on the latest changes to IDEA is the
National Parent Network on Disabilities Website. http://www.npnd.org  There
is a listing of where intake hearing will be held across the country on the
proposed regs for IDEA, there is also a listing of when the Federal Monitors
will be coming to your state to see how the state is coming along developing
implementation guidelines for the new law.  We have a listing on the website
of all the Parent Training and Informatin Centers in the country.

I am the Editor of the Website, so I see many many documents come across my
desk to be loaded to the website.  Sometime I get a little backlogged, like
right now, but I try to have information that is really, really important up
as fast as possible.  If you don't find something that you would like to know
send me an e-mail.  Just click on Betty Boop at the bottom of the frontpage
of the NPND website.

I am a parent of a young adult with many disabilities, so I have been where
you are, but I have had many good mentors, from the parent training center,
from the Parent to Parent Programs and lots of friends, but one thing that we
all agree on is the Knowledge is Power.  I never walked into an IEP meeting
without a friend and a copy of the State Law ( which in our state mirrored
IDEA).  It helps to keep you on an even playing field with the others in the
room.

Now I have graduated from IEP and Moved on to IPP and still trying to figure
out what the rules of that game is.  Any help????

Anne
[e-mail]



SUBJECT:  Re:Ratatat-Advocate   Date:  97-10-12 14:37:26 EST
From:  Ratatat

<Now I have graduated from IEP and Moved on to IPP >

IPP?  Do you mean ITP?

SUBJECT:  Re:Ratatat-Advocate   Date:  97-10-13 08:09:02 EST
From:  ALauritzen

No, It is IPP in our State - Individualized Personal Program.

SUBJECT:
Re:Ratatat-Advocate   Date:  97-10-13 08:10:20 EST
From:  Ratatat

<No, It is IPP in our State - Individualized Personal Program.>

Okay.  Is this the same as a Transition Plan?  One that includes the student
in planning from age 14 on?

Geesh - I wish we had one set of vocabulary for all this stuff, it would make
it so much easier to communicate!

SUBJECT:  Re:Ratatat-Advocate   Date:  97-10-13 08:50:44 EST
From:  Mars000210

Hello, I don't know if this would help for you but childlren serviced under
either plan ( IEP or 504) the transitional planning is now done for both
plans. I found that calling the colleges helped ( they were able to tell me
how they interput the IEP and 504 plans). I also found that calling arround
to the rehabilitation agencies in the state were a lot of help ( they are now
forming stragies to help children with not only transition to the work place,
but with interventions for children who are going on to college.
Hope this helps
Take Care Barb

SUBJECT:  Re:To Dawn:Teacher or Advoca   Date:  97-10-13 16:58:52 EST
From:  Drifty50

to Lynne; Thank you for the attorney info in Ohio. Could you e-mail me again
-the message disappeared before I could copy the info. Thanks  Suzie

SUBJECT:
State Law vs Federal   Date:  97-10-19 15:40:11 EST
From:  Lynnebl

I have a question.  My state has recently passed a law that everyone *must*
pass the state competency test in order to graduate from high school.  This
includes those in special education. Those who do not pass the test will only
receive a certificate of completion.  Many school districts will not let
these students participate in the cap and gown ceremony with their peers.
This sounds like discrimination against learning disabled students to me.  I
know adults who are learning disabled, had a hard time in public school but
went on to be successful in college.  Not having a high school diploma may
have kept them out of college.  Is this contrary to the ADA and IDEA?

SUBJECT:
Re:State Law vs Federal   Date:  97-10-19 18:18:28 EST
From:  Ratatat

<Is this contrary to the ADA and IDEA?>

It's probably contrary to ADA.  I may have to be tested in court before
anyone is "convinced" though.  I believe the National Learning Disabilities
Association is working on this.  You might find something at their web site:

http://www.ldanatl.org/

SUBJECT:  Re:Ratatat-Advocate   Date:  97-10-21 16:06:36 EST
From:  ALauritzen

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner.  The IPP is after the person has
graduated from High School and moved on to the real world.  Our state has
case coordination services available for all persons with developmental
disabilities.  This is a plan that would help direct the case coordinator in
case something would happen to the family and the person with disabilities
was ultimately left on their own.  The case coordinator ( the state) would
take over and continue the 'program' that has been developed for the person
and oversee their well being.

Since I am very much in my son's live it is kind of an exercise in
nothingness, but it helps if we would ever need someone to step in if we/I
were not able to for awhile.  Basically it is a time, like an IEP when all
involved in my son's life sit down and with him and decide how things are
going on the job, what kind of assistance he is still needing; what is
happening around the home, any assistance needs, etc.

That is kind of an IPP in a nut shell. I am still trying to figure it all
out.  Unfortunately, the Fed's never wrote directions for it like they did
IEP's so parents are basically lost in a blackhole of really no one knowing
what is suppose to be happening or what can happen, or what is available in
the community.  This is not just in my state but all over.  There are no
directions to follow.

SUBJECT:  Re:Ratatat-Advocate   Date:  97-10-21 19:42:46 EST
From:  Ratatat

<That is kind of an IPP in a nut shell. I am still trying to figure it all
out.  Unfortunately, the Fed's never wrote directions for it like they did
IEP's so parents are basically lost in a blackhole of really no one knowing
what is suppose to be happening or what can happen, or what is available in
the community.  This is not just in my state but all over.  There are no
directions to follow.>

Have you contacted NICHCY on this?  Its the one place I can think of that
might just have a briefing paper or some other information to help clarify
this mud.  1-800-695-0285

SUBJECT:  Re:Ratatat-Advocate   Date:  97-10-23 16:11:56 EST
From:  ALauritzen

Thanks for the suggestion. I do have all that information. I have several
friends in the different disability organizations that are my resources.
What we think needs to happen in individual states is that manuals be written
that pretain to that state, since each state has their own quirks.
I have proposed to our PTI that this be a continuation of a Transition
training, since Transition is the beginning of all this, but after the kids
leave schools so do the directions, just leave.  The PTI has agreed to look
at it very closely and talk to the State Ed people to see what can be done.
Will let you know.

SUBJECT:  The proposed Regs for IDEA   Date:  97-10-23 16:14:06 EST
From:  ALauritzen

The proposed regs from OSERS have now been posted in the Federal Register as
of yesterday.  The only way that I can get to them is through the following
address - if someone has found a better access put it up.

http://gcs.ed.gov/fedreg/proprule.htm

It is in 2 parts.

Happy reading!

SUBJECT:  WE NEED SUPPORT   Date:  97-10-27 11:27:09 EST
From:  Ratatat

CH.A.D.D. MEMBERS AND PARENTS OF CHILDREN WITH A.D.D.
WE NEED YOUR SUPPORT
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION RELEASES DRAFT REGULATORY LANGUAGE
The U.S. Department of Education has released the draft regulations for
implementation of the new IDEA.  These regulations include language to
clarify eligibility of children with ADD under the Other Health Impaired
(OHI) Category.

The new language regarding OHI eligibility for students with ADD is likely to
be criticized by others.  We need your help to be sure the Department is
flooded with letters of support to counter any criticism and make sure the
language stays in the final regulations.

The Background:  On June 4, 1997, President Clinton signed into law "The
Individuals with Disabilities Education Act Amendments of 1997," (Public Law
105-17).  Known as IDEA 97, the law is a balanced piece of legislation which
was produced after months of negotiation between representatives of the
disability and general education communities and Congressional staff.
CH.A.D.D. was very active in the IDEA reauthorization process.

After the bill was signed into law, the Department of Education was charged
with the job of drafting regulations to implement the new law.  The
regulations provide specific instructions to state and local educational
agencies n how to put the law into practice.  The regulatory process began
with the Department requesting input from the public, including parents,
teachers and organizations about what the regulations should include.
Preliminary input was accepted through the month of July.  The Department
released its draft regulations on October 22, 1997.

Language on ADD:  Language was added to the regulations that clarified that
children with ADD may qualify for special education and related services
under OHI when "the ADD is a chronic or acute health problem that results in
limited alertness, which adversely affects educational performance." (1)  The
draft language also states that children with ADD may also qualify under
other IDEA disability categories if they satisfy the applicable criteria.
During the next three months, the Department will be accepting comments on
the draft regulations.

As mentioned above, it is very important for the Department to hear from
CH.A.D.D. members and others who have children with ADD in the public schools
to ensure that the language remains in the regulations.  Note: (1) Per the
U.S. Department of Education:  "Limited alertness" must be viewed in terms of
its adverse effect on educational performance.   If evaluators determine that
a child's heightened alertness to environmental stimuli results in limited
alertness with respect to educational performance, the "limited alertness"
criterion of the OHI category would be satisfied.

Please use the letter below as a sample and write your own personal letter to
the Department, and see if you can each get at least 5 other people to send
letters.

SAMPLE LETTER
Thomas Irvin, Office of Special Education and Rehabilitation Services
U.S. Department of Education, Room 4507
Mary E. Switzer Building
330 C Street, S.W.
Washington, D.C. 20202
Dear Mr. Irvin,

  As the parent of a child with ADD [and a member of Children and Adults with
Attention Deficit Disorders (CH.A.D.D.)], I want to thank the Department for
its efforts to clarify and affirm eligibility for special education for
children with ADD in the draft IDEA regulations.  It is especially important
to ensure that children can be found eligible under OHI.

  Special education services are so important to (my child/children) with
ADD.  The regulations must make sure that eligibility is not a barrier for my
(child/children) or other children with ADD.

  [If you have had problems with your school district finding your child
eligible for special education, describe how hard this was for you.  If you
know of another family that has had this problem, you may want to add a
sentence about that].

Thank you for addressing this issue in the new regulations.

SUBJECT:  IDEA
Research   Date:  97-10-27 22:23:18 EST
From:  FarmerSE

I am doing graduate research on the Reauthorization of the IDEA.  What I am
looking at is the difference between the Reauthorized version and previous
IDEA versions.  How have they changed? I am focusing mainly on the procedures
and policies of disciplining special education students.  Does the
reauthorization discriminate against non-IDEA students?

For example, in the school system where I teach deaf students, we have "zero
tolerance" policy in effect.  In our policy, it states that any student who
brings weapons, illegal substances, or violence to school will be expelled
for at least one calendar year.  According to the IDEA, a special education
student cannot be expelled for more than 45 days...Reverse discrimination???

Your help with the information comparing the reauthorization of 1997 with
other versions would be greatly appreciated!!

SUBJECT:  Re:IDEA Research   Date:  97-10-28 07:05:40 EST
From:  Ratatat

<
For example, in the school system where I teach deaf students, we have "zero
tolerance" policy in effect.  In our policy, it states that any student who
brings weapons, illegal substances, or violence to school will be expelled
for at least one calendar year.  According to the IDEA, a special education
student cannot be expelled for more than 45 days...Reverse discrimination???>

Actually, that's a mis-interpretation and a good example of why we need the
regulations.

The way the law reads (and the regulations will explain how it works) is that
any student who is found to be a danger to himself or others can be
tranferred to an alternative educational setting for up to 45 days.  This
includes possession of a dangerous weapon, or possession, use or sale of
*illegal* drugs; or the sale of controlled substances.

Before or within 10 days after discipline the school must review the existing
plan of the student and modify as necessary to address behavior, or develop a
plan in none is in place

The transfer of up to 45 days can only take place if the school demonstrates
the violation by the student by substantial evidence.

During the 45 days for a violent or dangerous child, the school is to address
a comprehensive behavior plan and develop an IEP that addresses the students
needs, especially if the behavior was found to be related to the disability
in some way.

The main this is, the way the law is written right now, there may be NO
CESSATION of services to the child, especially while the evaluations, reviews
and hearings are going on.  It's complicated.  Until we have the exact
rules/regulations no one can be sure of exactly how the U.S. Department of
Education wants it carried out.

SUBJECT:  Re:IDEA Research   Date:  97-10-28 17:55:34 EST
From:  FarmerSE

Can you suggest a source I can refer to for detailed explanation of the IDEA
regulations regarding discipline for special education students?

SUBJECT:
Re:NEED HORROR STORIES   Date:  97-10-28 20:17:56 EST
From:  Jackieo881

If you were on the Titanic you probably would have been shouting the loudest
that the kids with mental retardation not get in the life boat.  Your
ignorance to the subject of special education is an unfortunate situation.
Your lack of empathy towards giving is quite sad.  I don't know who you are
nor do I want to meet you, but all I can say is perhaps you will have the
opportunity first hand to know what it is to parent a child with special
needs, then we will see whos voice is loudest.  Fairness isn't about giving
everyone an equal amount of the pie.  The neediest get the larger slices and
that's fairness!!!

SUBJECT:  Re:IDEA Research   Date:  97-10-29 08:21:49 EST
From:  Ratatat

<Can you suggest a source I can refer to for detailed explanation of the IDEA
regulations regarding discipline for special education students?>

The regulations are in draft form at the moment.  Though the law was passed
June 4, 1997, the regulations won't be finalized until sometime toward the
end of this year.

You should contact the Deparmtent of Education for a copy of what's now
available.

SUBJECT:  Re:NEED HORROR STORIES   Date:  97-10-29 11:21:36 EST
From:  Wheels2082

I was using this as a method to improve IDEA when it was in committee.  I am
more up to date with things than you think based on your post.  I have seen
more horror stories than you can ever imagine on helping parents learn more
about their rights.  When Special Education fails, its not for the less
severe affected students, it is often the ones who need more modifications
but are learning disabled students.  I doubt you have even heard half the
tatics I have used to keep parents in line when it goes terribly wrong.
Next time before attacking the writer of a message board post, remember to
read the context of which it was written.  If you want, I can give you
information on what I have encountered if you write me requesting such
information.  I don't send the information without request for reasons I
won't discuss to any person on a message board.

Wheels
Online Teacher
Special Education ADVOCATE

SUBJECT:  Educating gifted children    Date:  97-11-11 14:46:06 EST
From:  LIKJA

I would like to hear from any parents that have been frustrated over the lack
of appropriate curriculum in the public elelmentary schools.  What educaTORS
fail to realize is that gifted children have special needs as well.  I would
like to know how to look into possible funding for specialized programs to
meet these childrens needs.

SUBJECT:  Re:The proposed Regs for IDEA   Date:  97-11-14 00:51:31 EST
From:  NEA SEEKER

If you have comments on the new regs please let me know. I will be testifying
for the NEA  and am working with the Dept. on the new regs. My name is Ed
Amundson, and I chair the Caucues For Educators of Exceptional Children for
the National Education Association. Reach me at NEA SEEKER @ aol. com

SUBJECT:
Re:IDEA Research   Date:  97-11-14 01:01:35 EST
From:  NEA SEEKER

You can contact me at NEA SEEKER @ aol.com. I am the chair of the National
Education Association : Caucus for Educators of Exceptional Children. I may
be able to share some insight as to the intent of the changes. We at NEA were
directly involved in many of the discussions.


SUBJECT:  IDEA 97 REGS   Date:  97-11-14 01:14:56 EST
From:  NEA SEEKER

There has been an abundance of misinformation as to the intent and meaning of
the changes to IDEA. Our group, the National Education Association  Caucus
for Educators of Exceptional Children, has been asked by the Dept of Ed to
share what we are hearing from teachers, parents and others, as to what is
being said about the intent of IDEA 97. Please contact me with your info so
that we can share it with the folks in D.C. My name is Ed Amundson, and Iam
the chair. I can be reached at NEA SEEKER @ aol.com. Your input is much
needed so that the regs can be clear as to what the true intent of the
changes to IDEA mean. I will be delivering testimony at the reg hearings Nov
21, and will be meeting with the Dept in early Dec in D.C. so the sooner the
better. Hope to hear from you soon , Ed